From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Amirouche Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.user Subject: How to make GNU Guile more successful Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2017 00:56:26 +0100 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1486943818 29784 195.159.176.226 (12 Feb 2017 23:56:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2017 23:56:58 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.7.0 To: guile-user@gnu.org Original-X-From: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Feb 13 00:56:52 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-user@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cd40h-0007H4-Sn for guile-user@m.gmane.org; Mon, 13 Feb 2017 00:56:52 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53864 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cd40n-0003IR-MG for guile-user@m.gmane.org; Sun, 12 Feb 2017 18:56:57 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:43633) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cd40R-0003IA-QX for guile-user@gnu.org; Sun, 12 Feb 2017 18:56:37 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cd40O-0004xL-MO for guile-user@gnu.org; Sun, 12 Feb 2017 18:56:35 -0500 Original-Received: from relay5-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.197]:52369) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cd40O-0004xB-Ff for guile-user@gnu.org; Sun, 12 Feb 2017 18:56:32 -0500 Original-Received: from mfilter11-d.gandi.net (mfilter11-d.gandi.net [217.70.178.131]) by relay5-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04E8341C080 for ; Mon, 13 Feb 2017 00:56:30 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at mfilter11-d.gandi.net Original-Received: from relay5-d.mail.gandi.net ([IPv6:::ffff:217.70.183.197]) by mfilter11-d.gandi.net (mfilter11-d.gandi.net [::ffff:10.0.15.180]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JwD-MvtEYPuV for ; Mon, 13 Feb 2017 00:56:28 +0100 (CET) X-Originating-IP: 82.239.61.147 Original-Received: from [192.168.0.7] (aul93-4-82-239-61-147.fbx.proxad.net [82.239.61.147]) (Authenticated sender: amirouche@hypermove.net) by relay5-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C508241C084 for ; Mon, 13 Feb 2017 00:56:27 +0100 (CET) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 217.70.183.197 X-BeenThere: guile-user@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: General Guile related discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "guile-user" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.lisp.guile.user:13178 Archived-At: I don't know why Racket is successful probably because it has a very good documentation and also a documentation generator written in scheme. => This is a long debate and core principle of GNU project so I don't want to enter that debate And it's easy to packages. => Another pain topic. In reality it's very easy to package all sort of guile programs for guix. But guix itself needs to be more stable. Python is successful because it has a massive number of libraries. In particular it has dozens of: - web framework - library to generate diagrams and graphical stuff - scientific libraries (machine learning and others) - books which teach python (the good enough way) - 2D and 3D libraries for games => We (all the people reading this mail) can not just create all those projects. It requires to many domain knowledge for a handful of people to be able to compete. But what we can do is *share*, *share* and *share* again *all* what we do (on mailing list, blogs, on gitlab or whatever) whether it is a full blown project with a website made by a professional designer with tests suite, a tutorial documentation reference doc and a community or a simple *snippet* or broken experiments. I have lost (read deleteted) at least the code of 5 or 6 experiments only to recognize later that it could be useful for future me. => In terms of software I really think, we need something like ActiveState Python Cookbook [0]. I still go there sometime even I could simply ask the question on StackOverflow and get an answer in minutes. [0] http://code.activestate.com/recipes/langs/python/ During a long time I was said that Pythonist were among the smartest developer, because simply they had the guts to learn a language that was not learned in school. => this can be true for schemers; Python *was* easy to learn. => Scheme is easy to learn if you stick in the "garden" (garden must be defined but it's basically what I introduce in my tutorial [1]) Which is totally the same for the Python of today (read Python 3.5+). [1] http://hyperdev.fr PHP was successful back in the days because it was easy to install, => A scheme web application is much easier to run! Now PHP is successful because there is a few successful software written in it. By successful I mean they GTD. They aren't perfect, you get bitten etc. But the basic are there. I think about Drupal, Wordpress and Prestashop. => While you might not be interested to build something like prestashop. You very much be interested to build something like Drupal or Wordpress to allow mom and dad and others create a personnal experience on the web. Another thing, Python has GNU Media Goblin => We must do better! WDYT? What block you from contributing to the wide ecosystem of GNU Guile? Best regards, Amirouche