From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: tomas@tuxteam.de Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.user Subject: Re: GPT-4 knows Guile! :) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2023 12:20:54 +0100 Message-ID: References: <1d0e0407-de72-8e63-9e5d-b26097a7ddb1@jamescm.co.uk> <87jzzcb9wa.fsf@web.de> <2cc18425-c5dc-0ff8-1bc2-5c9a97386296@posteo.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="vX8iCxGEWc/bQqjQ" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="37291"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" , guile-user@gnu.org To: Zelphir Kaltstahl Original-X-From: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Mar 20 12:21:20 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-user@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1peDZm-0009QH-RA for guile-user@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 20 Mar 2023 12:21:18 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1peDZV-0005Yf-RI; Mon, 20 Mar 2023 07:21:01 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1peDZU-0005YU-7r for guile-user@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Mar 2023 07:21:00 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.tuxteam.de ([5.199.139.25]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1peDZS-0004PE-8E for guile-user@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Mar 2023 07:20:59 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tuxteam.de; s=mail; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject :Cc:To:From:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=rOYm5RsJhgNUwpyKE97Foqp7QzuIBRKo2jJYVyDQBkc=; b=DQ0bNyhrzgr/XKxi6nO/V4Ol6N Wt9GDs/E2tjhcywHQQZ5QLQNA6coQGc/ZijtSHAnC5qRSniNm8ivknT8U3k3wbHxFGIfNT1FjxRRL 8OpkSXME9rXndm1iYKwLSuEGqxGNoA4qGzZgB/efw9c1Sy1hh4gBXNDLQN1rUQg1kbN0l2PUIFX7P mcQ0M8NkGEvMZYFkmYkJBf7U3yNk5wd+EmURKGI3SDAzpkZayscYaXJY5753wJp37VM/I6qjICeby 6DXVl07baORIsg6Moad6XFwsYiB7omQPOLgU1XG6C+H+tzzNWvNXwwS8qQ8YG9hs9KuYq88TVWzBa 8TyKu9yA==; Original-Received: from tomas by mail.tuxteam.de with local (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1peDZO-00020C-EC; Mon, 20 Mar 2023 12:20:54 +0100 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <2cc18425-c5dc-0ff8-1bc2-5c9a97386296@posteo.de> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=5.199.139.25; envelope-from=tomas@tuxteam.de; helo=mail.tuxteam.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guile-user@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: General Guile related discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.lisp.guile.user:18948 Archived-At: --vX8iCxGEWc/bQqjQ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Mar 20, 2023 at 10:56:38AM +0000, Zelphir Kaltstahl wrote: > On 3/20/23 00:18, Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > > writes: > > > which has tried to be free (in both senses). For images, there is > > > Stable Diffusion (disclaimer:I don't know much about them). For > > > raw data, there's Common Crawl [3], which is Stable Diffusion's > > Stable diffusion has one of the most evil licenses I=E2=80=99ve read ti= ll now: > > using its images seems to be allowed for almost all proprietary uses, > > but illegal for free culture use. See the explicit questions about that > > here: https://github.com/CompVis/stable-diffusion/issues/131 > >=20 > > A license that makes its output only usable for proprietary creations > > but not for free culture is like the polar opposite of the GPL or CC > > by-sa: making a tool that gives proprietary creations an advantage over > > Free Culture. >=20 > That would double evil, since they most likely trained their stuff on fre= ely > available things. Basically taking from our culture, but not giving anyth= ing > back and netting the profits. Capitalism is doubly evil. It is actually infinitely evil. It reminds me of the divergences you find in quantum electrodynamics and similar, where the fields produce fields which produce fields ad infinitum and you have to resort to some obscure mathematical device to somehow continue doing things. You'll find an echo of that on derivatives market, which also tend to diverge. > My biggest concerns about these big machine learning models are: >=20 > (1) The laundering character, be it code, other texts, prose and to on, or > artworks.=E2=80=94What and where are their sources? Complete list of inpu= ts? [...] Shoshana Zuboff calls it "appropriation": "This is ours, now". Pretty standard capitalistic modus operandi. Enclosures [1] and all that. > In the end it is the same typical kind of shitty behavior we see from > entities like FB, oh wait, they call themselves "Meta" now lol.: "Oh what > you want is soooo complicated to do and would be sooo much effort! We can= not > possibly be expected to do that, so sorry!"=E2=80=94Well then don't start= doing what > you do in the first place! If doing it ethically does not scale, then don= 't > friggin start scaling! Twitter just shows the path: fire your ethical team, problem solved :) Totally agree, except that most of it are just old hats with a "new" technology (actually not that new, but empowered by the availability of cheap GPUs). Of course those old hats become way more dangerous the more tech they get. Cheers [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enclosures --=20 t --vX8iCxGEWc/bQqjQ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EABECAB0WIQRp53liolZD6iXhAoIFyCz1etHaRgUCZBhBkAAKCRAFyCz1etHa Rt97AJ9k1RPZHG+UyujKwUJT1osjz1Ep0gCfd0NlIYwFd2JTnzxrLzN453R7MJY= =ulmG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --vX8iCxGEWc/bQqjQ--