From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Thien-Thi Nguyen Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.user Subject: Re: First look at Guile Std Library available Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2004 02:49:01 +0100 Sender: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <20040102052128.GA16849@Richard-Todds-Computer.local> <87wu89q8pj.fsf@kanga.tapsellferrier.co.uk> <20040103221857.GA518@Richard-Todds-Computer.local> Reply-To: ttn@glug.org NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1073180806 9618 80.91.224.253 (4 Jan 2004 01:46:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 01:46:46 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jan 04 02:46:41 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AcxLl-0005Cx-00 for ; Sun, 04 Jan 2004 02:46:41 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AcyDd-0004vB-JE for guile-user@m.gmane.org; Sat, 03 Jan 2004 21:42:21 -0500 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1AcyCw-0004r6-Ts for guile-user@gnu.org; Sat, 03 Jan 2004 21:41:38 -0500 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1AcyCO-0004nL-PK for guile-user@gnu.org; Sat, 03 Jan 2004 21:41:36 -0500 Original-Received: from [151.37.58.81] (helo=surf.glug.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AcyCN-0004nE-7a for guile-user@gnu.org; Sat, 03 Jan 2004 21:41:03 -0500 Original-Received: from ttn by surf.glug.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AcxO1-0008Dq-00 for ; Sun, 04 Jan 2004 02:49:01 +0100 Original-To: guile-user@gnu.org In-reply-to: <20040103221857.GA518@Richard-Todds-Computer.local> (message from Richard Todd on Sat, 3 Jan 2004 16:18:57 -0600) X-BeenThere: guile-user@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list List-Id: General Guile related discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.lisp.guile.user:2510 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.guile.user:2510 From: Richard Todd Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 16:18:57 -0600 I wonder why no one has suggested that I just contribute it all to ice-9? probably because the most important thing about a project where you plan to harvest contributions from fellow programmers is its methodology and how comfortably that sits w/ those programmers. next-most important is the structure and vision of your project (x and dx, respectively, if you consider methodology the dx2). ice-9 has no dx and guile maintenance behavior demonstrates little to encourage dx2, so the end result is x remains static (or circles the drain slowly, depending on your poetic mood :-). for this reason i don't suggest you to direct energy towards ice-9, but others may have their own reasons. [...] a large hierarchy that's calling out to be filled in. It's built from the start to be huge. Furthermore, it's not some bridge to a generic library with some single-namespace'd 'require' mechanism...it's written in guile, for guile users. i like the idea of providing a framework, but caution you against getting stuck on the implementation details. for slib (for example), if the bridging is as easy as another poster has intimated, why preclude that from your plans? the bridge is still guile scheme (it has to be), and the beneficiaries are still guile users (who are all programmers, btw, and presumably appreciative of the value of not relying on possibly out-of-date bits of rewritten slib). IMHO, the interesting problem to be solved in this case is not in the code per se, but in its management. btw, i consider "generic library" high (and deserved) praise for slib. Just as people don't buy books to fill other people's bookshelves, it seems to me that people aren't writing much guile code to enhance SLIB. hmmm, i'm stretching my brain to understand this sentence... ok. I hope they will want to get new code into a guile standard library. Especially if it is organized and documented. if you write the docs first (taking the definition of an "interface" to include proc signatures, docs, error behavior, etc.), it will be easy for people to see if the code they may have sitting around already fits into the organization, and if not, to write or adapt it so that it does. Who can tell their boss with conviction that they need to build important systems tied together with ttn's personal scheme library? well, ttn can, to his boss... excuse this smarmy blurb, it's for the ignorant: ttn-pers-scheme is released under the GNU GPL, which stipulates for its users certain freedoms related to its source code. germaine to this discussion is the freedom to locally modify the source for whatever reason necessary, even for "internal marketing/sales" purposes such as... The basis for this project is that it should just be: (use-modules (net email sendmail)) ... something like: (define-module (net email sendmail) #:use-module (ttn parse-rfc822) ; for auto-reply #:use-module (j-r-hacker mail-utils) ; for compose-mail ...) (define (auto-reply ...) ...) (define (compose-mail ...) ...) and so on. it could be that people are doing this already, but more locally than not (and w/ little fanfare or further distribution). who knows? who cares? anyway, to sum up my pov: a nice GPLed user-supported standard library for guile would be very welcome, and most welcome would be a standard set of well-organized interfaces, responsibly maintained. otherwise, no matter the name, it will simply be another *-pers-scheme package in spirit (nothing wrong w/ that, of course ;-). thi _______________________________________________ Guile-user mailing list Guile-user@gnu.org http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/guile-user