Handling modules with same name (from library and from current project)

Handling modules with same name (from library and from current project)

[Zelphir Kaltstahl]

Hello Guile Users!

I have a question regarding an issue I run into again and again, and have not 
found an adequate solution for yet. I want to know how you are handling this, 
what your solution is.

(1) recent story:

I have a website, that I wrote manually in pure HTML and CSS. It does what it 
should and there is no actual issue with it. However, I have been thinking it 
would be cool to implement it in Guile and make a sort of minimal example or web 
"framework", of how one can make such a static website using Guile. I already 
have some example in my examples repository. However, that example has code in 
it, that is copied from my existing "guile-fslib", which is on guix already. So 
I have been thinking: "I should just install the package from guix and remove 
this code from my new website repository, having it hidden away in the 
guile-fslib library." It is just some code to work with file names and 
directories and paths, not directly web related, but important for checking, 
whether a request for a static resource/an asset is within the "static" 
directory, and not just anywhere on the server, which would be a security issue.

Of course I could put everything in a docker container or something, or 
completely serve static assets using a HTTP server, as one should, but then the 
Guile thing I want to build would not work on its own. I want to at least have 
it implemented as a fallback, so that one could run it without an additional 
thing in front of it for handling static resource requests.

(2) So far so good. But now comes the problem:

"guile-fslib" has a module named "string-utils" and a module named "list-utils". 
In my guile web development example code I also have modules with those names. 
Guile then gets confused about which one I am referring to, when I `(use-modules 
...)` them and in the code that makes use of the functions from those modules, 
it then claims, that no bindings with some name exist, because it has looked 
into the "list-utils" or "string-utils" of the guix package, instead of the one 
of my web project.

(3) Thoughts:

I don't know how to resolve this. I think it is very unreasonable to have to 
look out to name no module the same name as any module in any library I am 
using. Obviously many libraries or projects will have some list utilities or 
helpers for convenience. Many projects will have some special string functions. 
Having a name like "string-utils" or "string-helpers" should not be an 
impossibility.

 From a past/previous case of this, I remember someone saying I should get my 
load path in order. But what does this mean? In my projects I invoke Guile doing 
something like this:

~~~~
guile -L . -L libs main.scm
~~~~

I simply use the `-L` argument to pass in all the directories, in which my 
modules reside, for example "libs/list-utils.scm" or "libs/string-utils.scm", 
which I then import into various other modules and the main file, the entrypoint.

(4) Solution ideas:

(4.1) I already abstain from doing `(add-to-load-path ...)` manipulations in my 
code. As far as I know I am not doing anything dirty there. But ... Guile gets 
confused about which module to import and it seems to see the one from installed 
library first and then not consider the one of my current project. I am not even 
sure how Guile could possibly know which module I am referring to, because I am 
not telling it anything about that. So I am wondering, whether some dark magic 
of dynamically changing load path is perhaps a _necessary_ evil?

(4.2) Or perhaps I have to give my modules multi part names like `(define-module 
(fslib helpers list-utils))` to scope module names? But that would be annoying 
when using them inside the library itself, because it is more to write and I am 
not sure others are doing that always. Usually I just name my modules 
`(list-utils)` or `(string-utils)`. Is that a bad thing, when these are modules 
of helper functions, which are not supposed to be exported for use in other 
projects?

(4.3) The ugly solution I so far had to reach for, because I couldn't figure out 
a better way: Integrate library code directly into the source tree of a project, 
copying code. This cannot be the right way to do it, can it? Seems unlikely.

How do you manage this? I know people have written much bigger projects than I 
have and surely someone has some dependency on another Guile library. How do you 
avoid these module name conflicts? How do you make sure that only libraries 
themselves use their own helper function modules?

The bad thing is, that I always run into this, when I actually want to do 
something else. In this case build a website thing in Guile. But now I am side 
tracked again by this issue, because I don't know how to do this properly.

Best regards,
Zelphir

-- 
repositories:https://notabug.org/ZelphirKaltstahl,https://codeberg.org/ZelphirKaltstahl

Re: Handling modules with same name (from library and from current project)

[Nala Ginrut]

> How do you
avoid these module name conflicts? How do you make sure that only libraries
themselves use their own helper function modules?

If I understand you correctly.
I think you should add a namespace as directory inside lib dir, pick your
own unique project name as the namespace, say mylib, and define it as
(define-module (mylib list-utils))

Best regards.

Zelphir Kaltstahl <zelphirkaltstahl@posteo.de> 于 2025年1月5日周日 下午11:50写道：

> Hello Guile Users!
>
> I have a question regarding an issue I run into again and again, and have
> not
> found an adequate solution for yet. I want to know how you are handling
> this,
> what your solution is.
>
> (1) recent story:
>
> I have a website, that I wrote manually in pure HTML and CSS. It does what
> it
> should and there is no actual issue with it. However, I have been thinking
> it
> would be cool to implement it in Guile and make a sort of minimal example
> or web
> "framework", of how one can make such a static website using Guile. I
> already
> have some example in my examples repository. However, that example has
> code in
> it, that is copied from my existing "guile-fslib", which is on guix
> already. So
> I have been thinking: "I should just install the package from guix and
> remove
> this code from my new website repository, having it hidden away in the
> guile-fslib library." It is just some code to work with file names and
> directories and paths, not directly web related, but important for
> checking,
> whether a request for a static resource/an asset is within the "static"
> directory, and not just anywhere on the server, which would be a security
> issue.
>
> Of course I could put everything in a docker container or something, or
> completely serve static assets using a HTTP server, as one should, but
> then the
> Guile thing I want to build would not work on its own. I want to at least
> have
> it implemented as a fallback, so that one could run it without an
> additional
> thing in front of it for handling static resource requests.
>
> (2) So far so good. But now comes the problem:
>
> "guile-fslib" has a module named "string-utils" and a module named
> "list-utils".
> In my guile web development example code I also have modules with those
> names.
> Guile then gets confused about which one I am referring to, when I
> `(use-modules
> ...)` them and in the code that makes use of the functions from those
> modules,
> it then claims, that no bindings with some name exist, because it has
> looked
> into the "list-utils" or "string-utils" of the guix package, instead of
> the one
> of my web project.
>
> (3) Thoughts:
>
> I don't know how to resolve this. I think it is very unreasonable to have
> to
> look out to name no module the same name as any module in any library I am
> using. Obviously many libraries or projects will have some list utilities
> or
> helpers for convenience. Many projects will have some special string
> functions.
> Having a name like "string-utils" or "string-helpers" should not be an
> impossibility.
>
>  From a past/previous case of this, I remember someone saying I should get
> my
> load path in order. But what does this mean? In my projects I invoke Guile
> doing
> something like this:
>
> ~~~~
> guile -L . -L libs main.scm
> ~~~~
>
> I simply use the `-L` argument to pass in all the directories, in which my
> modules reside, for example "libs/list-utils.scm" or
> "libs/string-utils.scm",
> which I then import into various other modules and the main file, the
> entrypoint.
>
> (4) Solution ideas:
>
> (4.1) I already abstain from doing `(add-to-load-path ...)` manipulations
> in my
> code. As far as I know I am not doing anything dirty there. But ... Guile
> gets
> confused about which module to import and it seems to see the one from
> installed
> library first and then not consider the one of my current project. I am
> not even
> sure how Guile could possibly know which module I am referring to, because
> I am
> not telling it anything about that. So I am wondering, whether some dark
> magic
> of dynamically changing load path is perhaps a _necessary_ evil?
>
> (4.2) Or perhaps I have to give my modules multi part names like
> `(define-module
> (fslib helpers list-utils))` to scope module names? But that would be
> annoying
> when using them inside the library itself, because it is more to write and
> I am
> not sure others are doing that always. Usually I just name my modules
> `(list-utils)` or `(string-utils)`. Is that a bad thing, when these are
> modules
> of helper functions, which are not supposed to be exported for use in
> other
> projects?
>
> (4.3) The ugly solution I so far had to reach for, because I couldn't
> figure out
> a better way: Integrate library code directly into the source tree of a
> project,
> copying code. This cannot be the right way to do it, can it? Seems
> unlikely.
>
> How do you manage this? I know people have written much bigger projects
> than I
> have and surely someone has some dependency on another Guile library. How
> do you
> avoid these module name conflicts? How do you make sure that only
> libraries
> themselves use their own helper function modules?
>
> The bad thing is, that I always run into this, when I actually want to do
> something else. In this case build a website thing in Guile. But now I am
> side
> tracked again by this issue, because I don't know how to do this properly.
>
> Best regards,
> Zelphir
>
> --
> repositories:
> https://notabug.org/ZelphirKaltstahl,https://codeberg.org/ZelphirKaltstahl
>

Re: Handling modules with same name (from library and from current project)

[Zelphir Kaltstahl]

Hi Nala!

Thank you for your response! I tried it and got that structure working. As far 
as I see the rules are as follows:

(1) prefix with something library specific, so that there are no conflicts with 
other projects/libraries

(2) In order to not have all the utility modules on the top level of a project, 
one can move them into a subdirectory (obviously). Lets say the subdirectory's 
name is "libs". But then one needs to add that subdirectory to the load path 
using the `-L` argument of guile (OK, also kind of obvious), so `guile ... -L 
libs ...`.

(3) In order to make ones module named uniquely for the library one is writing, 
one should prefix their module names/identifiers. For example `(define-modules 
(my-lib-name the-module-name))`. In order for Guile to be able to find such a 
module however, it has to be inside a folder named "my-lib-name". That means, 
that inside ones "libs" directory, one needs to create a folder named 
"my-lib-name" and move all the modules inside that folder.

(4) However! One would be mistaken to now change the load path to `guile ... -L 
libs/my-lib-name ...`! The load path still needs to be added as follows: `guile 
... -L libs/ ...`. This seems to be, because Guile takes each part of the module 
name, and tries to find a file defining that module inside a file structure that 
corresponds to the name. So for finding a module imported and named 
`(my-lib-name my-module-name)` Guile would try to find it as follows: For each 
directories on the load path check, if there is a module "my-module-name" inside 
a directory "my-lib-name". Since we added "libs" to the load path, Guile will be 
able to find the "my-lib-name" directory inside it. Inside the "my-lib-name" 
directory, I am guessing, that it checks all the non-directory files inside, 
whether any of them contains a module that has the name `(my-lib-name 
my-module-name)`.

Conclusion:

What I did not check is, whether the file, that contains the actual module needs 
to be named "my-module-name.scm" or not. I guess it should not hurt to name it 
that way.

As a consequence of this, I must update my guile-fslib package, if I want to be 
able to use it anywhere properly, and its current state is basically unusable.

OK, but now I know better how to structure things in Guile projects! Thank you!

Best regards,
Zelphir

On 05.01.25 16:42, Nala Ginrut wrote:
>
> > How do you
> avoid these module name conflicts? How do you make sure that only libraries
> themselves use their own helper function modules?
>
> If I understand you correctly.
> I think you should add a namespace as directory inside lib dir, pick your own 
> unique project name as the namespace, say mylib, and define it as 
> (define-module (mylib list-utils))
>
> Best regards.
>
>
> Zelphir Kaltstahl <zelphirkaltstahl@posteo.de> 于 2025年1月5日周日 下午11:50写道：
>
>     Hello Guile Users!
>
>     I have a question regarding an issue I run into again and again, and have not
>     found an adequate solution for yet. I want to know how you are handling this,
>     what your solution is.
>
>     (1) recent story:
>
>     I have a website, that I wrote manually in pure HTML and CSS. It does what it
>     should and there is no actual issue with it. However, I have been thinking it
>     would be cool to implement it in Guile and make a sort of minimal example
>     or web
>     "framework", of how one can make such a static website using Guile. I already
>     have some example in my examples repository. However, that example has
>     code in
>     it, that is copied from my existing "guile-fslib", which is on guix
>     already. So
>     I have been thinking: "I should just install the package from guix and remove
>     this code from my new website repository, having it hidden away in the
>     guile-fslib library." It is just some code to work with file names and
>     directories and paths, not directly web related, but important for checking,
>     whether a request for a static resource/an asset is within the "static"
>     directory, and not just anywhere on the server, which would be a security
>     issue.
>
>     Of course I could put everything in a docker container or something, or
>     completely serve static assets using a HTTP server, as one should, but
>     then the
>     Guile thing I want to build would not work on its own. I want to at least
>     have
>     it implemented as a fallback, so that one could run it without an additional
>     thing in front of it for handling static resource requests.
>
>     (2) So far so good. But now comes the problem:
>
>     "guile-fslib" has a module named "string-utils" and a module named
>     "list-utils".
>     In my guile web development example code I also have modules with those
>     names.
>     Guile then gets confused about which one I am referring to, when I
>     `(use-modules
>     ...)` them and in the code that makes use of the functions from those
>     modules,
>     it then claims, that no bindings with some name exist, because it has looked
>     into the "list-utils" or "string-utils" of the guix package, instead of
>     the one
>     of my web project.
>
>     (3) Thoughts:
>
>     I don't know how to resolve this. I think it is very unreasonable to have to
>     look out to name no module the same name as any module in any library I am
>     using. Obviously many libraries or projects will have some list utilities or
>     helpers for convenience. Many projects will have some special string
>     functions.
>     Having a name like "string-utils" or "string-helpers" should not be an
>     impossibility.
>
>      From a past/previous case of this, I remember someone saying I should get my
>     load path in order. But what does this mean? In my projects I invoke Guile
>     doing
>     something like this:
>
>     ~~~~
>     guile -L . -L libs main.scm
>     ~~~~
>
>     I simply use the `-L` argument to pass in all the directories, in which my
>     modules reside, for example "libs/list-utils.scm" or "libs/string-utils.scm",
>     which I then import into various other modules and the main file, the
>     entrypoint.
>
>     (4) Solution ideas:
>
>     (4.1) I already abstain from doing `(add-to-load-path ...)` manipulations
>     in my
>     code. As far as I know I am not doing anything dirty there. But ... Guile
>     gets
>     confused about which module to import and it seems to see the one from
>     installed
>     library first and then not consider the one of my current project. I am
>     not even
>     sure how Guile could possibly know which module I am referring to, because
>     I am
>     not telling it anything about that. So I am wondering, whether some dark
>     magic
>     of dynamically changing load path is perhaps a _necessary_ evil?
>
>     (4.2) Or perhaps I have to give my modules multi part names like
>     `(define-module
>     (fslib helpers list-utils))` to scope module names? But that would be
>     annoying
>     when using them inside the library itself, because it is more to write and
>     I am
>     not sure others are doing that always. Usually I just name my modules
>     `(list-utils)` or `(string-utils)`. Is that a bad thing, when these are
>     modules
>     of helper functions, which are not supposed to be exported for use in other
>     projects?
>
>     (4.3) The ugly solution I so far had to reach for, because I couldn't
>     figure out
>     a better way: Integrate library code directly into the source tree of a
>     project,
>     copying code. This cannot be the right way to do it, can it? Seems unlikely.
>
>     How do you manage this? I know people have written much bigger projects
>     than I
>     have and surely someone has some dependency on another Guile library. How
>     do you
>     avoid these module name conflicts? How do you make sure that only libraries
>     themselves use their own helper function modules?
>
>     The bad thing is, that I always run into this, when I actually want to do
>     something else. In this case build a website thing in Guile. But now I am
>     side
>     tracked again by this issue, because I don't know how to do this properly.
>
>     Best regards,
>     Zelphir
>
>     -- 
>     repositories:https://notabug.org/ZelphirKaltstahl,https://codeberg.org/ZelphirKaltstahl
>
-- 
repositories:https://notabug.org/ZelphirKaltstahl,https://codeberg.org/ZelphirKaltstahl

Re: Handling modules with same name (from library and from current project)

[Nala Ginrut]

Hi Zelphir!

For new library,  I would recommend to always set a namespace with an
unique name directory.

However, if you want to reuse an existing library in minimum cost without
changing anything, I think renamer in Guile/RnRS module system can help.

Personally, I treat the latter a workaround in a lower priority.

Best regards.

Zelphir Kaltstahl <zelphirkaltstahl@posteo.de> 于 2025年1月6日周一 上午10:09写道：

> Hi Nala!
>
> Thank you for your response! I tried it and got that structure working. As
> far as I see the rules are as follows:
>
> (1) prefix with something library specific, so that there are no conflicts
> with other projects/libraries
>
> (2) In order to not have all the utility modules on the top level of a
> project, one can move them into a subdirectory (obviously). Lets say the
> subdirectory's name is "libs". But then one needs to add that subdirectory
> to the load path using the `-L` argument of guile (OK, also kind of
> obvious), so `guile ... -L libs ...`.
>
> (3) In order to make ones module named uniquely for the library one is
> writing, one should prefix their module names/identifiers. For example
> `(define-modules (my-lib-name the-module-name))`. In order for Guile to be
> able to find such a module however, it has to be inside a folder named
> "my-lib-name". That means, that inside ones "libs" directory, one needs to
> create a folder named "my-lib-name" and move all the modules inside that
> folder.
>
> (4) However! One would be mistaken to now change the load path to `guile
> ... -L libs/my-lib-name ...`! The load path still needs to be added as
> follows: `guile ... -L libs/ ...`. This seems to be, because Guile takes
> each part of the module name, and tries to find a file defining that module
> inside a file structure that corresponds to the name. So for finding a
> module imported and named `(my-lib-name my-module-name)` Guile would try to
> find it as follows: For each directories on the load path check, if there
> is a module "my-module-name" inside a directory "my-lib-name". Since we
> added "libs" to the load path, Guile will be able to find the "my-lib-name"
> directory inside it. Inside the "my-lib-name" directory, I am guessing,
> that it checks all the non-directory files inside, whether any of them
> contains a module that has the name `(my-lib-name my-module-name)`.
>
> Conclusion:
>
> What I did not check is, whether the file, that contains the actual module
> needs to be named "my-module-name.scm" or not. I guess it should not hurt
> to name it that way.
>
> As a consequence of this, I must update my guile-fslib package, if I want
> to be able to use it anywhere properly, and its current state is basically
> unusable.
>
> OK, but now I know better how to structure things in Guile projects! Thank
> you!
>
> Best regards,
> Zelphir
> On 05.01.25 16:42, Nala Ginrut wrote:
>
> > How do you
> avoid these module name conflicts? How do you make sure that only libraries
> themselves use their own helper function modules?
>
> If I understand you correctly.
> I think you should add a namespace as directory inside lib dir, pick your
> own unique project name as the namespace, say mylib, and define it as
> (define-module (mylib list-utils))
>
> Best regards.
>
> Zelphir Kaltstahl <zelphirkaltstahl@posteo.de> 于 2025年1月5日周日 下午11:50写道：
>
>> Hello Guile Users!
>>
>> I have a question regarding an issue I run into again and again, and have
>> not
>> found an adequate solution for yet. I want to know how you are handling
>> this,
>> what your solution is.
>>
>> (1) recent story:
>>
>> I have a website, that I wrote manually in pure HTML and CSS. It does
>> what it
>> should and there is no actual issue with it. However, I have been
>> thinking it
>> would be cool to implement it in Guile and make a sort of minimal example
>> or web
>> "framework", of how one can make such a static website using Guile. I
>> already
>> have some example in my examples repository. However, that example has
>> code in
>> it, that is copied from my existing "guile-fslib", which is on guix
>> already. So
>> I have been thinking: "I should just install the package from guix and
>> remove
>> this code from my new website repository, having it hidden away in the
>> guile-fslib library." It is just some code to work with file names and
>> directories and paths, not directly web related, but important for
>> checking,
>> whether a request for a static resource/an asset is within the "static"
>> directory, and not just anywhere on the server, which would be a security
>> issue.
>>
>> Of course I could put everything in a docker container or something, or
>> completely serve static assets using a HTTP server, as one should, but
>> then the
>> Guile thing I want to build would not work on its own. I want to at least
>> have
>> it implemented as a fallback, so that one could run it without an
>> additional
>> thing in front of it for handling static resource requests.
>>
>> (2) So far so good. But now comes the problem:
>>
>> "guile-fslib" has a module named "string-utils" and a module named
>> "list-utils".
>> In my guile web development example code I also have modules with those
>> names.
>> Guile then gets confused about which one I am referring to, when I
>> `(use-modules
>> ...)` them and in the code that makes use of the functions from those
>> modules,
>> it then claims, that no bindings with some name exist, because it has
>> looked
>> into the "list-utils" or "string-utils" of the guix package, instead of
>> the one
>> of my web project.
>>
>> (3) Thoughts:
>>
>> I don't know how to resolve this. I think it is very unreasonable to have
>> to
>> look out to name no module the same name as any module in any library I
>> am
>> using. Obviously many libraries or projects will have some list utilities
>> or
>> helpers for convenience. Many projects will have some special string
>> functions.
>> Having a name like "string-utils" or "string-helpers" should not be an
>> impossibility.
>>
>>  From a past/previous case of this, I remember someone saying I should
>> get my
>> load path in order. But what does this mean? In my projects I invoke
>> Guile doing
>> something like this:
>>
>> ~~~~
>> guile -L . -L libs main.scm
>> ~~~~
>>
>> I simply use the `-L` argument to pass in all the directories, in which
>> my
>> modules reside, for example "libs/list-utils.scm" or
>> "libs/string-utils.scm",
>> which I then import into various other modules and the main file, the
>> entrypoint.
>>
>> (4) Solution ideas:
>>
>> (4.1) I already abstain from doing `(add-to-load-path ...)` manipulations
>> in my
>> code. As far as I know I am not doing anything dirty there. But ... Guile
>> gets
>> confused about which module to import and it seems to see the one from
>> installed
>> library first and then not consider the one of my current project. I am
>> not even
>> sure how Guile could possibly know which module I am referring to,
>> because I am
>> not telling it anything about that. So I am wondering, whether some dark
>> magic
>> of dynamically changing load path is perhaps a _necessary_ evil?
>>
>> (4.2) Or perhaps I have to give my modules multi part names like
>> `(define-module
>> (fslib helpers list-utils))` to scope module names? But that would be
>> annoying
>> when using them inside the library itself, because it is more to write
>> and I am
>> not sure others are doing that always. Usually I just name my modules
>> `(list-utils)` or `(string-utils)`. Is that a bad thing, when these are
>> modules
>> of helper functions, which are not supposed to be exported for use in
>> other
>> projects?
>>
>> (4.3) The ugly solution I so far had to reach for, because I couldn't
>> figure out
>> a better way: Integrate library code directly into the source tree of a
>> project,
>> copying code. This cannot be the right way to do it, can it? Seems
>> unlikely.
>>
>> How do you manage this? I know people have written much bigger projects
>> than I
>> have and surely someone has some dependency on another Guile library. How
>> do you
>> avoid these module name conflicts? How do you make sure that only
>> libraries
>> themselves use their own helper function modules?
>>
>> The bad thing is, that I always run into this, when I actually want to do
>> something else. In this case build a website thing in Guile. But now I am
>> side
>> tracked again by this issue, because I don't know how to do this properly.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Zelphir
>>
>> --
>> repositories:
>> https://notabug.org/ZelphirKaltstahl,https://codeberg.org/ZelphirKaltstahl
>>
> --
> repositories: https://notabug.org/ZelphirKaltstahl, https://codeberg.org/ZelphirKaltstahl
>
>