From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Amirouche Boubekki Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.scheme.chibi,gmane.lisp.scheme.reports.wg2,gmane.lisp.scheme.reports.wg1,gmane.lisp.scheme.chicken,gmane.lisp.scheme.gambit,gmane.lisp.guile.user Subject: Re: [scheme-reports-wg2] Re: Tangerine Edition penultimate report: how I voted, how you're voting Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2019 14:11:41 +0100 Message-ID: References: <00545ca8-81d6-d4c5-5acc-142c87457692@bothner.com> Reply-To: chibi-scheme-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Host: ciao.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d6ad88057fe37cbf" X-Trace: ciao.gmane.org 1547989908 13527 195.159.176.228 (20 Jan 2019 13:11:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ciao.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2019 13:11:48 +0000 (UTC) Cc: scheme-reports-wg2-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org, Per Bothner , scheme-reports-wg1-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org, chicken chicken , gambit-list , guile-user , srfi-160-D5jPTyc31mpbJb6xxNauyti2O/JbrIOy@public.gmane.org To: chibi-scheme Original-X-From: chibi-scheme+bncBDHZ7WPLXYGBBGPHSHRAKGQE3SEFODA-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Sun Jan 20 14:11:46 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: glsc-chibi-scheme@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-pg1-f186.google.com ([209.85.215.186]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1glCt7-0003VL-3V for glsc-chibi-scheme@m.gmane.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2019 14:11:45 +0100 Original-Received: by mail-pg1-f186.google.com with SMTP id x26sf12148071pgc.5 for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2019 05:11:55 -0800 (PST) ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; t=1547989913; cv=pass; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; b=cVFK8OBPsrfrAvMamqwYJWvZkMxos+h8465hQoxHIdLAzasXsG7pZ+ij4I6hSVjRTa j4DUar0wkC4zBeQv2S34DF2Kn90CpppOSt8jM8Dw4l6i7zwe/CiU6vZzeJ4+YGp6FQqm Xx52aQ2foAj5YwXDzZ6rDUL/W3iuGkifalXhOmWIWZHARe769VclCMV05bJuvQwKcOs+ bPPZa5LfVaYBDA/iO7tCU2Z3DwaP38KYBqf9VF0ZGGauJoemaNqd7RZhT4iSRBiFS3R5 K9V080EuiReFUAXc2uiZxdpi2t/1SKKK717+AEQGfg6GEY70ohYooNhaRY2XjHXTawPp OuzQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:reply-to:cc:to:subject:message-id :date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:sender:dkim-signature :dkim-signature; bh=Q6W8vuIxEEfPo1sv3j0UL/CMjK2ZJYSL6nvUaovySf8=; b=L2flgpSCaFHWPaAAjj56Lg8R/YDZO6EQnxuPeVbYXExic5lzJdgSTP1iOisuKOoSNV oVMVQc3rYJArSavPPiE7QWWSDiLDtRrCgC1kOdWyCufX22iIoe+Xej6X++7C4g6MsJ7g We2PlH32tn65NKcV6Tc9CmFuLOe1T8Mta3mULNHHpJwBF6ZTvr6X61ZmU//6cwUuhrJ/ g51Y7we1XUoWMz15NSDVsNQE3/1FpmuKSAIT23m4sOl6Qa/uriCF4uhhAtQkl4FrHg72 wLZsEE10YK5HDPBNVs13GxGSjaWzykCwtRXyoj1qejQ07d3YYLKM91siIAaMRZK5MuHF QPIA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b="f8tX/C87"; spf=pass (google.com: domain of amirouche.boubekki-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::e2e as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=amirouche.boubekki-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20161025; h=sender:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=Q6W8vuIxEEfPo1sv3j0UL/CMjK2ZJYSL6nvUaovySf8=; b=rfuHW8BIF7FzhvFeOj8gSHSiqMkXs3p8XOGaYVitQvydRZplmGHC0MLq2a2pSGXV+g F/quNqDtRAUD6oLcBmmJJL/m42yU2NczkWmFTdK0Cthvs2ZAmMc3QnKjRGeFJJeH8E3G MAVvqnSVq5WaKJpLcTSeTZ3J00nIW/7P2KnAp0yE0UsatZD5df/17Hf2pNJ1ajRNnoib fJSebTt//IA556Bkk67rhBFFsuk/u6QyCyowp5NIeEKgxnXbyzgGRqA7sabTSffixAc9 XhBBaO0wqTKA1RlcwRTzdD0S+Akk5MwW8L7HH7MBTDxHXMg7O51CwMWk6ztIBLbL14le PDbA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=Q6W8vuIxEEfPo1sv3j0UL/CMjK2ZJYSL6nvUaovySf8=; b=cVHP3Dc+BnsXs765xsH6tnAlnoGtBhj2W+NsexvIMhsBrZEX2ZH7LC18AlM+jNa6UH dHsQb6yDR0kOI++Rkzz8nYCxHeJ1chPstkqUkMOYAjYRAX+9TVIvaSv0qfZtF/dcYvUA wOpNa0nMJAUy2W8etPvHdYHiOjhFLVlwsIpqqCZ+O0AihtFKTq0/hvh32ery0oVYFBAU O2gBhJq3CJvJ8EIQv8SqmnWrl/hH+nIELe/8NVUo1DCvFhCNEgiGmmz9P9FVYS8HG+Eg Z9Hzp/g39YnnW8ZCBqKMgOCwEseUiZP46iC6FsMiC1i5gRZKl8UVMCsTY9YrMa7NSyY4 iDGA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=sender:x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=Q6W8vuIxEEfPo1sv3j0UL/CMjK2ZJYSL6nvUaovySf8=; b=WZsgytCAmjzeETAAHI3kcP6Nweob0R9H6YxYZZ4bUrPvRGa4qzi5BByaHPl9MKHheD FvBWNU9B1A4xPRUvEK1gL51h3GgvM/g7Hzn67CdSafhUMyNF7iUVODg7F+25g1+yPs4j IFuZjbgGwoI6aHraCAbhbbeUWJuT8RhC+kKbJGZU9Uvi7LdIh+i+dBwcFY7hsnbMk6qz 2CG+oWszlZFBvEOdCZObzUW422Whx9mszuAZmim+pxJws3c1p68Z2ZIYwOsN+EgkOt1P gIknIfDb7Gjtn//BOayt2XdtnA79P/cfukZWvKobZuDtBf1WBaHwoQaOgTPFBhYdigfA 6RpQ== Original-Sender: chibi-scheme-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukcfjLK5TPPSPIt8qspzkiAKKx7nV2OlmVlwT5I/eRlAtsGnpHy0 iyGjXYEl/B0+VvzxvKU19xY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN6S5hY88hhiNHJoFo5hNZM1iCuLko0x2AwAoWcxhSMaIpQ9EzgK7odjPYhVaKBIgLOXnrlUrw== X-Received: by 2002:a63:2b84:: with SMTP id r126mr116890pgr.2.1547989913614; Sun, 20 Jan 2019 05:11:53 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: chibi-scheme-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Original-Received: by 2002:a63:68c8:: with SMTP id d191ls7191624pgc.1.gmail; Sun, 20 Jan 2019 05:11:52 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 2002:a63:5a5f:: with SMTP id k31mr2802337pgm.37.1547989912936; Sun, 20 Jan 2019 05:11:52 -0800 (PST) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1547989912; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; b=YkN+K289KGvNDgx/pRDLQVguBRJL+YC7Hb5STuQX118cd4o6AozNLjSFRxwYdNOxtX wApXYrdj/mfGq52hyTPjvUZ8X6w3GgUIIfjcfc77Q1ZbIUvJWRmd21FI+OAtEIVy+/XQ BXACM0E47dQgwQvbW3jr34MHH7+UF6t29iB8TMJDYA0RCF4/6e8WOI+CThhonblYTjDH c8Cy18xmStIXI7mvUgiWZaGnG/8xbelhQwqpB3E4vsu59Qo8psW2oJukN/Mdwz/FW4Gl phYKHwgOfBWr87+GUjx54fc3OFuPtTVr8bNUOJ03uG9FmH9VLh6cAVGLygHQ7zRhq4/J TfNw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:dkim-signature; bh=p9R97DLHpvMf3qLZ6wYVrW7vVMhVdGq9ScXRfU8U3QU=; b=uZvU7HflwST9AVFL0XfNbCzA44qrl3yT50t8A3MCRxiUKtFUWs4LbQ+vjN6DNu48WM cTusUGXOZ3CoWbYcCouy895N/bt8pScaW7FZEGk8oOL5bKGwM1b3atqMh3p/gv0m+nQt ev9Du+XIYba6nqXZ2C2Huyuov0Wlvo4Q8tkshrc/e3Fcp711f+eRNIAQMUluCF4m26JD LWcYOjV8nln1u0rzJOBHa6YlHNdqTgq358xn3WIL6kLZO/XlFHDQQ1fU2N/kLMfXIDzZ jkZxtzuGiGVu8fupyzdRl3k52kK1wIU61yYQHRIWmSTwocoZkhX9/nHvqTStEpKYTKNc zzGg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b="f8tX/C87"; spf=pass (google.com: domain of amirouche.boubekki-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::e2e as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=amirouche.boubekki-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Original-Received: from mail-vs1-xe2e.google.com (mail-vs1-xe2e.google.com. [2607:f8b0:4864:20::e2e]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id v185si488727pgb.3.2019.01.20.05.11.52 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 20 Jan 2019 05:11:52 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of amirouche.boubekki-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::e2e as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::e2e; Original-Received: by mail-vs1-xe2e.google.com with SMTP id b74so11099931vsd.9; Sun, 20 Jan 2019 05:11:52 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 2002:a67:fa82:: with SMTP id f2mr4169265vsq.177.1547989912299; Sun, 20 Jan 2019 05:11:52 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: amirouche.boubekki-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b="f8tX/C87"; spf=pass (google.com: domain of amirouche.boubekki-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::e2e as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=amirouche.boubekki-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list chibi-scheme-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org; contact chibi-scheme+owners-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: chibi-scheme-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org X-Google-Group-Id: 534564575453 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.lisp.scheme.chibi:1550 gmane.lisp.scheme.reports.wg2:1044 gmane.lisp.scheme.reports.wg1:2925 gmane.lisp.scheme.chicken:21632 gmane.lisp.scheme.gambit:9019 gmane.lisp.guile.user:15244 Archived-At: --000000000000d6ad88057fe37cbf Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am satisfied with the approach taken by R7RS of being both small and large. Le sam. 19 janv. 2019 =C3=A0 22:39, John Cowan a =C3=A9cri= t : > > > On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 3:20 PM Ivan Raikov > wrote: > > >> Isn't the difference with R6RS that R7RS-large draws extensively on >> SRFIs which are indeed attempts to codify existing practices? >> > > SRFIs don't always codify existing practice, including the SRFIs drawn on > in past, present, and future R7RS-large ballots. The original intention > of the > Steering Committee, I think, had nothing to do with SRFIs; I simply decid= ed > when writing the charter (which the committee approved) to leverage both > existing and to-be-written SRFIs in order to be able to create R7RS-large > piecemeal, which has always seemed to me the only practical approach. > > That said, SRFIs often do refer to existing implementations, or > implementations > of languages other than Scheme. > > >> >> On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 5:15 PM Per Bothner wrote: >> > >> > On 1/16/19 6:27 AM, John Cowan wrote: >> > > So what is happening is that people are voting for more rather than >> less, as with the Red Edition. This encourages me that I'm going in a >> sensible direction with the large language. >> > >> > For the record, I'm extremely leery of the more-is-better approach. >> > We seem to be adding a large number of very large APIs, which seems >> > to be contrary to the Scheme ideal of small well-chosen primitives >> > that work synergistic well together. People were unhappy with R6RS >> > because of its size and that so much of it was invention rather than >> > codifying existing practice. R7RS-large is the same - but much more s= o. >> > -- >> > --Per Bothner >> > per-ENPyne5uQy1BDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org http://per.bothner.com/ >> > >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "scheme-reports-wg2" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send a= n >> email to scheme-reports-wg2+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "chibi-scheme" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to chibi-scheme+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > To post to this group, send email to chibi-scheme-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/chibi-scheme. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= chibi-scheme" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to chibi-scheme+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To post to this group, send email to chibi-scheme-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/chibi-scheme. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --000000000000d6ad88057fe37cbf Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am satisfied with the approach taken by R7RS of being bo= th small and large.

Le=C2=A0sam. 19 janv. 2019 =C3=A0=C2=A022:39, John C= owan <cowan-PrmTNUR8zL8@public.gmane.org> a =C3=A9c= rit=C2=A0:


On Fri, Jan 18, = 2019 at 3:20 PM Ivan Raikov <ivan.g.raikov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
=C2= =A0
Isn't the di= fference with R6RS that R7RS-large draws extensively on
SRFIs which are indeed attempts to codify existing practices?

SRFIs don't always codify existing practice, inc= luding the SRFIs drawn on
in past, present, and future R7RS-large= ballots.=C2=A0 The original intention of the
Steering Committee,= I think, had nothing to do with SRFIs; I simply decided
when wri= ting the charter (which the committee approved) to leverage both
= existing and to-be-written SRFIs in order to be able to create R7RS-large
piecemeal, which has always seemed to me the only practical approa= ch.

That said, SRFIs often do refer to existing im= plementations, or implementations
of languages other than Scheme.=
=C2=A0

On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 5:15 PM Per Bothner <per-ENPyne5uQy1BDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> On 1/16/19 6:27 AM, John Cowan wrote:
> > So what is happening is that people are voting for more rather th= an less, as with the Red Edition.=C2=A0 This encourages me that I'm goi= ng in a sensible direction with the large language.
>
> For the record, I'm extremely leery of the more-is-better approach= .
> We seem to be adding a large number of very large APIs, which seems > to be contrary to the Scheme ideal of small well-chosen primitives
> that work synergistic well together.=C2=A0 People were unhappy with R6= RS
> because of its size and that so much of it was invention rather than > codifying existing practice.=C2=A0 R7RS-large is the same - but much m= ore so.
> --
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0--Per Bothner
> per-ENPyne5uQy1BDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org=C2=A0 =C2=A0http://per.bothner.com/
>

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;scheme-reports-wg2" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to scheme-reports-wg2+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;chibi-scheme" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to chibi-scheme+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org.
To post to this group, send email to chibi-scheme-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/chibi-scheme.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;chibi-scheme" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to chibi-= scheme+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org.
To post to this group, send email to chibi-scheme-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/chibi-scheme.
For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--000000000000d6ad88057fe37cbf--