From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Linas Vepstas Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.user Subject: Re: Guile bugs Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2017 15:30:21 -0500 Message-ID: References: <87lgtajpkc.fsf@web.de> <87h8y7ruuz.fsf_-_@gnu.org> Reply-To: linasvepstas@gmail.com NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1504989170 20071 195.159.176.226 (9 Sep 2017 20:32:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2017 20:32:50 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Guile User To: =?UTF-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= Original-X-From: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 09 22:32:45 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-user@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dqmQk-0004qB-2D for guile-user@m.gmane.org; Sat, 09 Sep 2017 22:32:42 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50806 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dqmQr-0002M0-DA for guile-user@m.gmane.org; Sat, 09 Sep 2017 16:32:49 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:45081) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dqmOt-0001BM-H7 for guile-user@gnu.org; Sat, 09 Sep 2017 16:30:48 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dqmOs-0001Fn-8g for guile-user@gnu.org; Sat, 09 Sep 2017 16:30:47 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-lf0-x229.google.com ([2a00:1450:4010:c07::229]:35273) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dqmOq-0001CE-1d; Sat, 09 Sep 2017 16:30:44 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-lf0-x229.google.com with SMTP id d17so11393315lfe.2; Sat, 09 Sep 2017 13:30:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=EeAhYm0Hf98VLIPZ+BFteJmwqSUhBO1kLElA+opTnnk=; b=rAnqzNdt0Xak0p9bkVWCC0YKVaTezaMg846S7ozN0n0krxh9g6fG6nRDh8AUKqkN4Q PISW5HD7zamglCT/jNFaGX7BKsN0BGBFnBJd8cclDw7wSba5HRKnb6Czhv/zCfOmwdC3 bjhTFPJSFJcsl/mcoj45Rw9BJBo3xdnvyFfW9BjldycObOY3EUE44GXHZInT6p4IbWU9 TI3BdV/hBEynMrzpLcVO31XF5p9elnLODvYi6eqBTXttz0h2ZLndvv2940KgTqddSbLT v/IsOpjTN63wt3sz4B/nLOrDRo3l/QB2UAxosamQxdDM0cUmZnaNIeGO7AjbeTGofgy7 aG/A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=EeAhYm0Hf98VLIPZ+BFteJmwqSUhBO1kLElA+opTnnk=; b=FAAFtEMROtCJOg0DoREZLlOg1bWEffBOCF37zMJJhxHNTJOjYrjeecTqy4eMSZpSjq TG+KXvr6MA3iO1IyuzzSq3iE83uiFb8cIkIu9HRzhYyHkdtHm1hggJPfkRnUg4DPIPl4 s7VxRjOL/HgMGqd5Vw+Y/68Wfvtl9wiSds71kpr2LK33t8cl0siyfzDG8ndtx9sALfG6 jIJ6z3O1oL4F8wKhHala2utnFrHkLlQDWGiCIMzqDsBxf7vtpWsbiizIvsNMgFtTPjek ZXk8RpkM7Jr8j+e2v0tXnw2DXDAl7DYqFg+UAaB3+rUXr+8eB/5xKRkfraextxsi+hi7 KIxQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUgb163WF3nt8B6G5W6pV3a1GEV1TUx8+RZm6zg50XO0j7kuGgES NVmJ7EmN+GzhIbx/wkSKXLYI064aVhg3 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QBKUByC0DnLl9D+wfevFAgZed3Fiw6GuEOH7QsD7no1F7mdVZboZcFPrTE7pQzo8uwF/MIBc/9Na2tVilO8mWY= X-Received: by 10.46.1.134 with SMTP id f6mr2520447lji.100.1504989042204; Sat, 09 Sep 2017 13:30:42 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.25.44.200 with HTTP; Sat, 9 Sep 2017 13:30:21 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87h8y7ruuz.fsf_-_@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4010:c07::229 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.21 X-BeenThere: guile-user@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: General Guile related discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "guile-user" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.lisp.guile.user:14101 Archived-At: Hi Ludo, a very late reply... On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 10:28 AM, Ludovic Court=C3=A8s wrote= : > > > String handling in guile is a disaster area: If I give it a > > 10-megabyte-long string in utf8, it promptly tries to convert all of th= at > > string in utf32, for utterly pointless reasons. This just makes it slow= . > > We=E2=80=99ve discussed it before, and while I agree that there=E2=80=99s= much room for > improvement, I=E2=80=99m very skeptical about this use case It's OK to be skeptical. Let me briefly sketch a not-uncommon thought process. 1) There is a need to pass messages between subsystems running on different machines. 2) Solutions include ROS, ZeroMQ, google protocol buffers... whatever. All require lots of work, a learning curve, complexity, etc. 3) Wait! I know! I will just send around ascii (utf8) strings that are guile programs! Just use the guile repl server, connect to it, and send some guile string! No muss, no fuss, no coding, no learning curve, simple easy ... You can use netcat to drive things! echo (display "hello world\n") | nc 1.2.3.4 37146 4) Solutions 3 works great, so lets scale it up! Send more messages, larger messages, more quickly. 5) unhappiness. I reported one here, but it needs follow-up on my part. https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D27234 Other issues turn out to be that the REPL server is slow; I replaced it with a hand-coded blob that is wayyy faster. On a related note, there is no login/authentication for the repl server, but this is not a guile issue, its a generic issue. Amazingly, no one has ever created a generic login server, aside from ssh... and there's no easy way to glue ssh to the guile repl. --linas --=20 *"The problem is not that artificial intelligence will get too smart and take over the world," computer scientist Pedro Domingos writes, "the problem is that it's too stupid and already has." *