From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Linas Vepstas Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.user Subject: Re: How to make GNU Guile more successful Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2017 16:54:45 -0500 Message-ID: References: <87lgtajpkc.fsf@web.de> Reply-To: linasvepstas@gmail.com NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1500069340 12711 195.159.176.226 (14 Jul 2017 21:55:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2017 21:55:40 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "guile-user@gnu.org" To: Panicz Maciej Godek Original-X-From: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 14 23:55:34 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-user@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dW8Yd-0002sa-8q for guile-user@m.gmane.org; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 23:55:31 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39967 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dW8Yi-0001Rw-IK for guile-user@m.gmane.org; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 17:55:36 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:57974) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dW8YI-0001QP-L4 for guile-user@gnu.org; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 17:55:11 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dW8YH-00009r-Eq for guile-user@gnu.org; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 17:55:10 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-lf0-x22b.google.com ([2a00:1450:4010:c07::22b]:36605) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dW8YH-0008WO-2N for guile-user@gnu.org; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 17:55:09 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-lf0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id h22so60277035lfk.3 for ; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 14:55:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=pZAh0T5dCReACcoOeiebm6iSq0IJwCdDkrWpIXc/oS4=; b=t9ZeZINtJUnL9WWaVn7QdxRijErMnhsSs4FJzd0JJcScRLU9NZcaXF5ocupn0xLpEt nntEpEm4bR7fs5EGRyOo9GCDSu0eG2fKZnddOiyMMbEyW1sMHknSuKWgrQyXV3UR2CLg AQ/Bk+xauQL8Oe4TIi3YUtcADv+S87UdWSICsUfauK0RRee7jInFB+qCA2XeyF69WFWS digtnTxEcdOKoAK2CRUB2dJt4xvvQ+h/YXQFtYNYGfqgLSASNMicjWtsB7lIbp5rGjPR C0i/UuTpLg3LyMwuTLnz9HTUPo4CfBuRYOx7QFusU86J7BuUDfYc/uC73Jf+/tgpfhP/ lNyw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=pZAh0T5dCReACcoOeiebm6iSq0IJwCdDkrWpIXc/oS4=; b=lCkFNUUv5NnslZx4eGr1eijWreatRoJrv/W05JN1OpQj+edOzFryFjQu/Rr3zJ4LQs PIPpoiRzhyT1H6rGMi1Z3TzAHPg6Vy4qTV214OfpAxQu7wq1Wo3wjqT9tpy48HlWTIrf Hys/BfydgDAAFvSGV759DcCLYYPnZ8ZcoqRJMmuBplU6eItr5gC9/HCpEYPWz+2J2F5W OrSkcdmXZp71+tl68ZOgkjhP6kJ8Bfyorr0+l1ky+iqmfWMWNy91j2UhzBTdicpF5R6b 8dTN5lEG3GJ+udSp3n8h/bd2CBQdQOcXTjOvkdKrIoxkWjxKOfO8vF6NJkN+1KgFdE16 Vg8w== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw1123LsdavZM3mImsyKKmByYr2uO0scj/a163nXjiM9LPeIKMUy84 izDGlD9g9zO3WeaonDTAYu5e9kX+LA== X-Received: by 10.25.234.6 with SMTP id i6mr3439604lfh.42.1500069305762; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 14:55:05 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.25.31.65 with HTTP; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 14:54:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4010:c07::22b X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.21 X-BeenThere: guile-user@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: General Guile related discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "guile-user" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.lisp.guile.user:13918 Archived-At: On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 2:28 PM, Panicz Maciej Godek wrote: > > someone > responded critically: "are there out of the box libraries to estimate a > zero inflated negative > binomial regression model in guile". Of course, if I knew what a > zero-inflated > negative binomial regression model, I could deliver an implementation by > just explaining > the notions used in that phrase. Caution: the message below sounds negative. Sorry, I use guile daily and almost exclusively now. So there ... Lack of decent science libraries for scheme is a major stumbling block, for me. Simply having sine and cosine is not enough. I got excited (a decade ago) when I realized that guile supported GnuMP, and then rapidly deflated when I realized it only supported integers and rationals in GnuMP .. I work with arbitrary-precision floats. Or, I did back then. Maybe more important is making guile work well with large-RAM setups. Currently, I do data analysis, every day, in guile, on datasets that take 20GB or 40GB -- my current one is 110GB when loaded in RAM, and guile starts getting buggy, crashy and slow when working at that size. Sometimes, it starts calling GC half-a-dozen times per second, for no apparent reason, eating up 6 cores (or more!) doing nothing but GC. Why? Who knows? Who can tell? Yes, I have a machine with 256 GB RAM and a few dozen cores, and SSD's that hold the data, but every time guile crashes, I have to wait an hour for the data to reload. I can live with it, but its a dirty secret I would not share with guile wannabe users. String handling in guile is a disaster area: If I give it a 10-megabyte-long string in utf8, it promptly tries to convert all of that string in utf32, for utterly pointless reasons. This just makes it slow. There are still bugs between GC and the compiler: if call (eval "(some stuff) (other stuff)") the compiler will try to compile that string (after it was converted ti utf32!) and if GC happens to run at just that moment, guile crashes or hangs. These bugs need to be fixed. So although its a good start, there's a lot of work left until it can get to "the next level". And that work can't happen until guile is more popular. So it's very much chicken-and-egg scenario. --linas