From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: John Cowan Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.user Subject: Re: guile-json, SRIFs and licenses Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2019 13:53:26 -0500 Message-ID: References: <5235956c-e9e5-74da-dbdd-4bd9f0303f07@posteo.de> <49ac88d4-4ef0-cb82-b3c1-cb8290dca7af@posteo.de> <87eeyhdvpy.fsf@netris.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="2408"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: guile-user To: Mark H Weaver Original-X-From: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Nov 09 19:54:06 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-user@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iTVs5-0000UY-QS for guile-user@m.gmane.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2019 19:54:06 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39326 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iTVs4-00060G-Mn for guile-user@m.gmane.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2019 13:54:04 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40769) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iTVri-0005zz-T1 for guile-user@gnu.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2019 13:53:45 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iTVrh-0008Vp-6A for guile-user@gnu.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2019 13:53:42 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-qk1-x72f.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::72f]:46026) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iTVrg-0008Um-D6 for guile-user@gnu.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2019 13:53:41 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-qk1-x72f.google.com with SMTP id q70so7930081qke.12 for ; Sat, 09 Nov 2019 10:53:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccil-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=PAhTRwL7Fw/vgPNc67a3DPyfu6/hxVuMxagciktx23U=; b=YcBZjdhwlD+CnARD+6rj1S8x0eXV8Mb1ogulcqpK77HxOAHfXNpFOmLBiX6aKEcEuu X8xY//ktJS9sKJtWlO9Ueb4TxPikH9HkOu2aElMhUDNj0RaakxPve2P8/TLhcXOMaQ+9 otOLJvvzZYgvlEvLlBLLIedWoWpw2bq/FkBskNhUTfUtquXKXf59p4mgsW1mPOAu8o63 28rmD8TSQGtXMw3oQUGTQxPKzxkuTkW1defOxppddd+yrGCDfS2Tv6wp/0jmzeuvw4G8 fkse94HblY9uARka3huUcOMgSimBLHMS1RtNlABp4SPvyza9ywO31psxh7MnWaSpsneI XJiw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=PAhTRwL7Fw/vgPNc67a3DPyfu6/hxVuMxagciktx23U=; b=a8DORMketpc27X9mytx5/1OGb7aq4gm3QqSbEAt4GDtp/QJi5BlV33cbpalQkJqV1D lrRNmP4f7NdNkVhQnbuUWdRxJRqufkFSl/7lxIYSPPpyTM7+x3RAMd3wWo4fu9lQLFhV C9KTK0w/yuF2/7UwgtoF0+KQG1HC9lsrYkkb7DdGxh7+wGMWCXzlX7SH7u2udOrH7ZWP W+NlHJLcHSeaEeExg98u6vP3EmjmZmL7wRAMK48k/EOhV7gFPTXj9SKTsVVuG/P0bSAU 8fh1Cr6w3wLVO/6WlJ7ypivaBkLXDoBx4iSKl/lyT7fi1O0imXWet/8IvaOJv1dMQvob DMeA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVB7fn5x1758ZaR3i4UUQv+wfyE4IJtqlyHTqYpPSkWVLmRUO36 A+qQgJdr7XWr0pTWAtuktPUGm6bjENdnI6RjNqRkwQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqx0Bm1csggqbictqE/bKOV9WpMfXavYyrLDkVbKhMCm6S3WAXuCC+aRCakm3tkuG7TcLQTKJt3kgyKmE9c/nck= X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:648:: with SMTP id a8mr3113854qka.426.1573325618146; Sat, 09 Nov 2019 10:53:38 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87eeyhdvpy.fsf@netris.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::72f X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.23 X-BeenThere: guile-user@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: General Guile related discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "guile-user" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.lisp.guile.user:15897 Archived-At: On Sat, Nov 9, 2019 at 8:29 AM Mark H Weaver wrote: > You're mistaken. A GPLed library can be used by any program covered by > a *GPL-compatible* license. > At the cost of making the resulting work as a whole under the GPL. > Those are major historical examples, but the same thing happens quite > frequently and unremarked in smaller examples, whenever a boss would > reflexively tell an employee that a program they wrote should be kept > proprietary, but is compelled to make it free software because it > depends on a copylefted library (such a Guile-JSON). > Well, I suppose that happens; certainly it has happened in the past, as your examples show. However, all the bosses I have worked for in the last few decades (and I've made my living for forty years as most programmers do, by writing proprietary software), simply say "No GPLed components, ever. If he has to pay for me or another to write the components ourselves, he'd much rather do that than the alternative. My present employer takes a slightly more enlightened view. Employes are free to contribute to existing open-source projects on whatever terms. Like most, we use GPLed programs in proprietary shell scripts, which the FSF allows, and I wrote and GPLed a wrapper around an existing GPLv3 library to transform it into a server (our code opens a raw TCP connection, writes data, reads the results back). That repo is not yet publicly available, but it will be made so when the release that uses it is distributed to our customers. > Whether or not a GPLed JSON library requires the Scheme implementation > > to be itself GPL depends on the implementation, but certainly a > > stand-alone *application* that uses it would have to be. > > Again, you are mistaken. Check your facts, please. See > . > That page defines GPL-compatibility thus: "[If] the other license and the GNU GPL are compatible, you can combine code released under the other license with code released under the GNU GPL in one larger program. All GNU GPL versions permit such combinations privately; they also permit distribution of such combinations provided the combination is released under the same GNU GPL version." Thus if the JSON library is combined into the Scheme implementation as part of it, and that implementation is released, it must be released under the GPL. If a stand-alone application (as opposed to a mere script that invokes the implementation) written in Scheme makes use of a GPLed library, it too (if publicly distributed) must be GPLed. That's what I said As for clang, Apple funded it for commercial reasons, but there were efforts among BSD developers to write their own C compiler for years before that, though they came to nothing. John Cowan http://vrici.lojban.org/~cowan cowan@ccil.org Ambassador Trentino: I've said enough. I'm a man of few words. Rufus T. Firefly: I'm a man of one word: scram! --Duck Soup