From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Linas Vepstas Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.user Subject: Re: Ideas for Documentation Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 09:31:14 -0500 Message-ID: References: <201005161606.o4GG62TE003276@fcs13.keithdiane.us> Reply-To: linasvepstas@gmail.com NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1274106715 8681 80.91.229.12 (17 May 2010 14:31:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 14:31:55 +0000 (UTC) Cc: guile-user@gnu.org To: Keith Wright Original-X-From: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon May 17 16:31:52 2010 connect(): No such file or directory Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-user@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OE1MC-0002NQ-K9 for guile-user@m.gmane.org; Mon, 17 May 2010 16:31:48 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42686 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OE1MC-00058N-2A for guile-user@m.gmane.org; Mon, 17 May 2010 10:31:48 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=44522 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OE1M7-00058I-Jt for guile-user@gnu.org; Mon, 17 May 2010 10:31:44 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OE1M3-0002Wk-FI for guile-user@gnu.org; Mon, 17 May 2010 10:31:43 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-gw0-f41.google.com ([74.125.83.41]:44733) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OE1M3-0002WU-Bh for guile-user@gnu.org; Mon, 17 May 2010 10:31:39 -0400 Original-Received: by gwb20 with SMTP id 20so3885088gwb.0 for ; Mon, 17 May 2010 07:31:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:mime-version:received:reply-to :in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc :content-type; bh=Pxe8aP1f0DXazjMN+9c87HPBNfS6dekvUNDPWw/Mdyc=; b=hyjjRYOeMs/YXz5fCunMY3fZibzG5DWdv3rMh+F1S4tOhN0R+G3Ro6buZuo8/Iz77z ush5cBhRxTIcfhapTZ9zyK6sznAetoCTsDnSH8pEbnDvBcuWYTvd6C+obSlYcIQwvx7L D5Skj/xbRtOjLeQWTEUXXGNS/1/FvDGNtK7dA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc:content-type; b=IqWBgToFev//dimoeCnbqQa/afBgNVnVtWRaKRiIrG04lF6ye433/eIPpmGN4x5U8b 0Bv7JCV55GzOt6985X6A2LOGyfICwP1PbE4gwpsGUULZDK6esQWxuBAi/CqoYHzr+dam 4BLNXzwV5o3rG1l7SBt9olXdXqhQgxdJI3j2c= Original-Received: by 10.101.129.10 with SMTP id g10mr6238172ann.31.1274106694998; Mon, 17 May 2010 07:31:34 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.100.141.8 with HTTP; Mon, 17 May 2010 07:31:14 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201005161606.o4GG62TE003276@fcs13.keithdiane.us> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: guile-user@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: General Guile related discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.lisp.guile.user:7786 Archived-At: On 16 May 2010 11:06, Keith Wright wrote: > > On the other hand, while I have no idea what you know > or how it can be described, I can prove by algebra[1] > that all computer programs are discrete math. If I knew how to describe what I know, I'd put it on my resume. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Linas/Articles google and wikipedia can provide the "standard" definition of "discrete math" e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrete_mathematics Although GnuCash, Gnotime & other programs that use guile originally intended for guile to be used as a true "extension language", that goal remains mostly unfulfilled. Frankly, its just plain hard for non-programmers (and many experienced programmers) to use scheme. So, for example, GnoTime generates reports/charts in HTML so that they can be e-mailed, etc. Scheme code can be embedded in the reports, kind-of-like PHP, to customize the layout contents. (gnotime sends these off to guile for interpretation, while generating the report) There's a bunch of example reports, and a built-in mini-scheme-tutorial in GnoTime (found in the "reports" menu, explaining that the reports can be customized), to assist with this. But, to the best of my knowledge, no one has ever actually done this -- no one has ever made any changes big enough to send back to the gnotime developers. Guile in GnuCash was originally intended to make GnuCash customizable in various deep and powerful ways, but I think that vision was lost, and I don't think it even begins to be as easily usable as gnotime is. GnuCash would probably need some major work to expose guile to the ordinary user, and, even if these changes were made, its not clear that the ordinary user cares. At best, "extension languages" seem best suited for small consultancies who are making one-off changes to existing software products, for the benefit of paying clients. Neither GnoTime nor GnuCash seem to have a user-base that is interested in getting slightly modified versions for their own private use. --linas