From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Alex Sassmannshausen Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.user Subject: Re: [ANN] Guile Hall 0.3.0 released Date: Sun, 17 May 2020 22:40:08 +0200 Message-ID: <87zha6cn2v.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87k11bdh0k.fsf@gmail.com> <874ksfd2d0.fsf@gmail.com> <871rniseln.fsf@dustycloud.org> Reply-To: alex.sassmannshausen@gmail.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="71172"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: mu4e 1.2.0; emacs 26.3 Cc: guile-user@gnu.org, =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= To: Christopher Lemmer Webber Original-X-From: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun May 17 22:40:36 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-user@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jaQ5M-000INB-4N for guile-user@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 17 May 2020 22:40:36 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58908 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jaQ5K-00024z-Vt for guile-user@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 17 May 2020 16:40:35 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53922) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jaQ51-00024K-0x for guile-user@gnu.org; Sun, 17 May 2020 16:40:17 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ed1-x52b.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::52b]:36024) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jaQ4z-0003iX-B8; Sun, 17 May 2020 16:40:14 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ed1-x52b.google.com with SMTP id b91so6760371edf.3; Sun, 17 May 2020 13:40:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=references:user-agent:from:to:cc:subject:reply-to:in-reply-to:date :message-id:mime-version; bh=F/Km+6cQf0P+naCWpJgr/EDnA2XChFUrjhoAhrTKHQc=; b=OAB08b4xTHim2aLLzmbeHd5lNjeubn5hh3Y7b7t12yXR9uFHCi6CHWALNzA72Wwx/O BV+rfgyQsBFKsyd0zjjO3vC2w7en/rpIKYWMtligrOSonS+RaKInIfhtC2FAXuoiGzWF GG31Wv8Ht1ub3/pvVi5AKl5S9m7bxBMOQuvqXUIqyRZjqlcK4W5nfcc6tj7l8b5n2/5c cfZ+J1e0jMupk7nup6LjZ+1QWZTbuSmB+pGgM5ZTqaWIHype8dUCKZB/FddrW4CjPa+W xv1hmE5kx2KxeUgOzU8MSBHsHg9kRUcq62iJBINV9mLrm3RDMeOOCz/lZlZsfcKHK+a3 9NMg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:references:user-agent:from:to:cc:subject :reply-to:in-reply-to:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=F/Km+6cQf0P+naCWpJgr/EDnA2XChFUrjhoAhrTKHQc=; b=eCVF/6jFsxBXCnM1R10NNqoLfX2DT7Zv3lriw+wu40MN+EULwdifDwKU5BxMKBeEox vQWFqXuQqlWbiNwp0ZPnkZ+lesvetItpKfDVjdgMkO39M7yBsE/Uef9hL87wv0F0GhsH 1FfYk2elrNhElAR6AdlaGMpvJXnW7BvdxPPULkB878z19yNVUgXC7r0Vmzg1td8dxOOD Ur9g6x/WTk2IQR9Dt2SbkpFrEa/ixeh0gP4YR82jcSrbFyH5EF/VDhLcprfwXRql3ABo 7w73kvrH4nNVMLuA1pc2hxtAuqrguz9MSlZN30xpuG37WpcQLS75HpgwtDvIZEQsDnvn 2tRQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531jj1XLOVxuO5jbZGXwWswNwUVa59BYyKut3kt0hfYmFDY9cxor doKZ8/BBPaFLopWO99+AIAvVu0JwuSg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzLOmY8Qitc5Mo/+EY3VKhlCCz9LXLNC2cPzhsmZpAYitfq57qcrzUR8zsp56M5j3+2JFZaQA== X-Received: by 2002:aa7:cb94:: with SMTP id r20mr11186814edt.215.1589748009790; Sun, 17 May 2020 13:40:09 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from watership ([2a02:a03f:643c:5900:f200:b379:1817:18a7]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w12sm273646eds.4.2020.05.17.13.40.08 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 17 May 2020 13:40:09 -0700 (PDT) In-reply-to: <871rniseln.fsf@dustycloud.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::52b; envelope-from=alex.sassmannshausen@gmail.com; helo=mail-ed1-x52b.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guile-user@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: General Guile related discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "guile-user" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.lisp.guile.user:16487 Archived-At: Hi Chris, Hark the wanderer from remote lands returns! It's nice to have you back in Guileland :-) In all seriousness thoug, I think it's really valuable to gain experiences in different ecosystems and environments and then seeing how those experiences can grow our community. I like your insights on functional hashtables for instance! Christopher Lemmer Webber writes: > Catonano writes: > >> Now, I like to remind that Ludo had proposed to _mention_ guile-hall in the >> guix.texi manual !! >> >> Here: >> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guile-user/2018-07/msg00002.html >> >> "I think we should advertise it widely" >> >> I wholeheartedly agree >> >> This is an important step in making the Guile user experience less rough >> >> Where, in the manual, should such mention be placed ? > > The comparative frustration I had with having to use autotools for > simple guile projects vs when I was developing in Racket was one of the > things that came up in my FOSDEM talk last year. I didn't know that in > my absence Guile Hall came to be, though people told me later. This is a repeating story. And it's an interesting one, because I can really relate to it. Autotools feels so arcane and has a massively steep learning curve. And for people who just want to get on and code in an awesome language (like Guile), it is hard to argue that learning autotools is worth the effort. And yet it, I take it from people more knowledgeable in the matter than I, it also gives us a lot: when a project is set up to work with autotools, it will be deployable anywhere Guile and autotools can run. And that's a pretty nice guarantee I suppose. > I'm excited that Guile Hall has reduced this overhead considerably, so > I agree with all the above. And this is exactly what Hall is supposed to do. Currently I kind of envision 'the right thing' (as opposed to 'the good enough thing'), in terms of packaging, autotools + Guix. And I have always considered Hall to be something that does not seek to replace either with simpler things, but to make it easy for people to do the right thing. Much like Emacs teaches people Lisp by stealth, just because people start tweaking their init files; and Guix turns users into contributors by blurring the line between configuration and development; so I would like Hall to guide people from 'first steps in Guile' to participant in the community & user of Emacs & Guix. > That's all to say, thank you Alex for working on one of the most > important problems in Guile! This is great! Thank you for the kind words :-) Alex