From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.user Subject: Re: Does declaration order matter in guile? Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2023 11:44:23 +0100 Message-ID: <87zg9hlu0a.fsf@web.de> References: <3c8f41c0-2978-1ab8-b265-a8ab59030929@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="18690"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: mu4e 1.8.13; emacs 28.1 Cc: guile-user@gnu.org To: Sascha Ziemann Original-X-From: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Feb 13 11:50:51 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-user@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pRWQ7-0004jX-1n for guile-user@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 13 Feb 2023 11:50:51 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pRWPT-0002Tl-9B; Mon, 13 Feb 2023 05:50:11 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pRWPN-0002Pr-LT for guile-user@gnu.org; Mon, 13 Feb 2023 05:50:05 -0500 Original-Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.15.3]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pRWPL-0001T2-Pt for guile-user@gnu.org; Mon, 13 Feb 2023 05:50:05 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=web.de; s=s29768273; t=1676285400; bh=GXYwM3JyiWT7RYiGTAtckjmgNev2alCNfUxAZpHKIp4=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:References:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:In-reply-to; b=JDxq8B4qSUAXtFZVVgci8Gxw9iPSv9eUsEQ2LB+01X7LHJEaTol4tkAmJXSH5Rq6F 5tnXVk5MeQIBrZdXRxgXG2qmi1BD0vaG/Cd3DeGicuKaVf2rNfTlQhRg+qwLAHwE9z UjqTWLXVMpvM+HP/X4brwe0ZJnzaeN/VJSDDp3JgQ0I0N/+iN2nUaefUSpHTzXei2t wCkHkaTIiiGC8og5tqZ+E4wcoU/fuLY05TmbaXsngP9i3IvjSjA5iQWefq2GRN5W68 DDtsoAKQNOFwd2Wt83ee/j9VVx3tBV8GC+CnOc+DHWudk1seX3e0UzbOPxpgvpBYDO TpFisO6VhSzZw== X-UI-Sender-Class: 814a7b36-bfc1-4dae-8640-3722d8ec6cd6 Original-Received: from fluss ([84.149.95.143]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb006 [213.165.67.108]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MzCA3-1of2U71o4R-00wG30; Mon, 13 Feb 2023 11:50:00 +0100 In-reply-to: X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:uEagc/15i+3ee0moUide+BVtLPt2Z0bCgLHwRidDLrOA/naF32P 7SPT1okAQU3v5NEv981/fWjevwpckP/odqUsNvv2qtMcBBkOgFEP439/RksHQy2nWgwuxft XvzvNU65NipDEr7O4YSFFSbHsuO+YysBKXCeIes62US8pGrhfLOZ60XsAbjk+NpuW1n/c0X OqsykHo5ezsu8sbPvgfTg== UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:9+EtUykKv2U=;htjCujypwj7tlZhWdncwVX/h2zs cEPyCdbONjvihQMhu3l3sf78A4KbHWDFDHN6+tqsThUYbM3j6+OPbg+tRo4Tenm3ibX+bxazn 6GynQTrbTdkmq5Tf+TJd4vtrYuzO5OdEQQi7xbqpSmvaB54fr1p+wtRNtvWKFu3og6LrMJbZp LiiH69G2ozHCwN+jADtZFustIUNDcH2kKsbRGfRz2yilQ5mxupsfFBPdEUwZjQQT3NlxWF5qn rdc3fxI334ZoA6MfWPS//o0Bmcy4xf3Std+g0lgP3lKYdQj8Xu+v4UrdADolddcFkLMLo/b2w O5g9vWxxSlqx1qgcWKw1++7SKNgjPpFgnHPg6l9Zm/I8MBgb+jt0Ycjn5Fwp+FUZm2qcIXeZv x3cBID0Zp4bCS5Kmb69U9zAngUrerUebFQYGy2PFto24v/v7bW02fsoCAGayTLO9QRjF6pt73 msljr7RfR9lfSFjVn9uXOdfTuO+I1W2/hz9bQcdiI7v08Z8vFMn5ckumKProgWjOYUNqqo12a I3tDryGTu0dgXay+OopxMD2hV4N7ajQwCkmuPBFIffcaq9mmckGgqeYtPXaH29YAwkeMNUCXW +C+kP3OZQa7O6tTRp3TYo69LZvuXoAVjYyz1NaTa3bFL8sPIChqykxjM3Kx0rWbHOMO5etMEP tlb5+e+mRhYlNswM/Xwg8YVn1VtBgI4bs1B3nEmoE47WpR9nm4NHi1LnACcyKLLUl1w+PHlTs CpI4zjoUIhDvC0/MOafxEzVpP8GdJuiybjwtg+kL4m/TntayRUbZrM8OYyETehCvNeg1HppG Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.15.3; envelope-from=arne_bab@web.de; helo=mout.web.de X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guile-user@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: General Guile related discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.lisp.guile.user:18905 Archived-At: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sascha Ziemann writes: > Am So., 12. Feb. 2023 um 20:52 Uhr schrieb Taylan Kammer > : >> >> On 12.02.2023 19:46, wolf wrote: >> >> > 1. When does order matter? What is going on here? >> >> The order matters in this case because the SRFI-9 implementation in Guil= e defines >> syntax (macros) rather than just variables bound to procedures. > > This is a huge problem of Scheme in general, that you can not > distinguish between > procedures and macros just by looking at the code. You have to know it > or you have > to look it up in the manual. I see this as a strength, because it allows me to start with a procedure and switch it to be a macro later on if I need to. That way I can start with the weaker but easier to reason about construct and move to the stronger one when needed. > You also can not ask Scheme about macros, because macros are not > first-class-citizens. Actually you can, though you need to take a detour through modules: (define-syntax-rule (foo) #f) (define (bar) #f) (macro? (module-ref (current-module) 'foo)) ;; =3D> #t (macro? (module-ref (current-module) 'bar)) ;; =3D> #f (that=E2=80=99s from the info reference manual) Best wishes, Arne =2D-=20 Unpolitisch sein hei=C3=9Ft politisch sein, ohne es zu merken. draketo.de --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQJEBAEBCAAuFiEE801qEjXQSQPNItXAE++NRSQDw+sFAmPqFdcQHGFybmVfYmFi QHdlYi5kZQAKCRAT741FJAPD6xFuD/0Xk8+/PbFRGb3Ofw3bl1Cx+J4SUrn9nOKm 8Fg6OrbsOwg4G6WGA/p40V3sOVDBUyjflKrfYQ85IxValRsCLW1YDF3yE2Jvfj5g QnPI/BOxN9B3tpk81FbKg2xD45iCFtEnyNtKoxJdd8moOG+2HDliQH5D4UzPBe5D Nc1fo+bIk/QvS5PpaclNZIgM+ppH/LqGvdRYD8dIgYdSw3RY0OEasD1jnH0U/Mdg cM0YFCMBqrDZgb/OpFTsEbefUMr3j4sK1R9CbTpUQKxUYCCuYz5kHtVoAM75OA1X qYGZUQgRguYyw27ebSd5QHdZfInu7LUNcn1nlranP/iefdjqpVqSHZ6nOqwwjuCY 3QU5RwR/0YQgdbyTuQD+PErGT4EV7bWPiKaHioJWhlAOa53zygWY6nrTd4dJXWsz CMG55twWR5ejHnE9Xhb4/n5ujBsKZAsBMWpL+u3WfoPg5vRPlDPNIwzqKEHS+uq7 Kk3dP5yJEnBrct8PjKC9OwxumOxiTas4O/Sa9MmoBa3ngFHvsMA7kuzb8dDP5sxp mFagNt0izEFJ+cYukqEwzfGPiggg9TQSt7N8g2ghnEHRbgsMdoPzbocAib9hbhBB 5YjiccpoeaYswUf0eHawGsd3cM9FA17x1aNJPt5ty2ZmDaWiJW72K22b0VbY9dpd SH0LUaEUlojEBAEBCAAuFiEE3Si95tmHXKvOSosd3M8NswvBBUgFAmPqFdcQHGFy bmVfYmFiQHdlYi5kZQAKCRDczw2zC8EFSDoZA/9GtJ/xO646WRxoRIOQFaNo6Nlt 4dYL3/+DiGSDzqocIRlKFXN+Vd63InBgpu7Jv59gUmpaIh4NYiB2FzMtW6k0tApt NnsFEsAKzujo1ZbJ5zkHFF1szxjl6KcypWmwsaa2Xo3GJdDyeXh09dpA4P0DM7GK gLvaOhCqzTYyJxGHBQ== =Mg4+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--