From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Alex Sassmannshausen Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.user Subject: Re: [ANN] Guile Hall 0.3.0 released Date: Sun, 17 May 2020 22:48:30 +0200 Message-ID: <87y2pqcmox.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87k11bdh0k.fsf@gmail.com> <874ksfd2d0.fsf@gmail.com> <877dxaefr8.fsf@gmail.com> Reply-To: alex.sassmannshausen@gmail.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="106653"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: mu4e 1.2.0; emacs 26.3 Cc: Guile User , Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= To: Catonano Original-X-From: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun May 17 22:49:06 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-user@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jaQDZ-000Reb-NB for guile-user@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 17 May 2020 22:49:05 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35052 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jaQDY-0004m5-Q8 for guile-user@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 17 May 2020 16:49:04 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54544) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jaQD4-0004js-PI for guile-user@gnu.org; Sun, 17 May 2020 16:48:34 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wr1-x436.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::436]:35162) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jaQD3-0005Lt-TS; Sun, 17 May 2020 16:48:34 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wr1-x436.google.com with SMTP id j5so9521815wrq.2; Sun, 17 May 2020 13:48:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=references:user-agent:from:to:cc:subject:reply-to:in-reply-to:date :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Fik2rpKjIM4jT9OMheJr0qNIx2ER0Ox+n4iGfDrwoKA=; b=ROnO2HO4bk6PujFVcZUoSGOrxACRbOu9GgpDGsrc/aHp7wOBcigYHN2SB1li0xwFe9 3lgQO/cMoQhylXALEbaexmqKZrgyw7G5ZQbw25bd3GWg3511LK7Fw9J/DthnwnAsu1CA XDGze7rXONxinWh1K1lAhcwtW8H+pAqr5jP7OhKNbNFWuhGpiOShIgGH2Bq+nAeFhr5s BMpAUrV0pcokxPPUtlYfhoxUjpLeP1Qqfzl++xB9Sc33/qCoXd0+JH9UfkrM5Rabj9bc VdhW2mhc5awZgF2yACiEdAswW6RoW0VfsWSC3Z3QYTpYmnEcRou9aNcaKJMcKdzlVLSw DGCQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:references:user-agent:from:to:cc:subject :reply-to:in-reply-to:date:message-id:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Fik2rpKjIM4jT9OMheJr0qNIx2ER0Ox+n4iGfDrwoKA=; b=es7CvmXgv91KA+s7H20J+J1nxBtlsMsnz4O80tJXKTKADhR1VQdCY5b0ctszU0mtVc bk/aWMINyjyhBA37hxwEs/RNMCx0OnFolDDThuwi3M8GlP8eDwVAgHp4v6qDcvTNNfsa L2wQAjBelPm2tIXfOflpEO+eDD9Yrst4xbEXGrcgN2MGx62kOy322reEi1X1x+/T8QSL 7fc231PfAVYHH0876BzevodHeevlHSXspN7cnexKMTjgHxJqsAKXqLplJKepSp/qXLpi 6tTwzYw9MBz26Sz0fdCOJa2enPLC89k0UdMMcMqDy21brNTTEc+PEjNeiF+h820rkiVs M8NQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5320/kPd09hV3XrcQBJe0ekk2AINQKJzoaze2qyaVF/N0cKmtJ/7 dqHQdYlgtuAqJbWIX6Panyo4JRRAL88= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJynX6cg7ZhQ4z+fUi4yxFEZmvB32vcvLL7HHCzhpo+IfQ+OT188hHCdBq44b4h1xwr/A1Hbmw== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:404a:: with SMTP id w10mr15840827wrp.265.1589748511820; Sun, 17 May 2020 13:48:31 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from watership ([2a02:a03f:643c:5900:f200:b379:1817:18a7]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c140sm8539511wmd.18.2020.05.17.13.48.30 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 17 May 2020 13:48:31 -0700 (PDT) In-reply-to: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::436; envelope-from=alex.sassmannshausen@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x436.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guile-user@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: General Guile related discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "guile-user" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.lisp.guile.user:16488 Archived-At: Heya, Catonano writes: > Il giorno dom 17 mag 2020 alle ore 17:35 Alex Sassmannshausen ha scritto: > > Hey Cato, > > Catonano writes: > > > [=E2=80=A6] > > > > This is an important step in making the Guile user experience less rou= gh > > > > Where, in the manual, should such mention be placed ? > > I guess section '4.6 Using Guile Tools' might be a good place to put it? > > 4.5 advetises paredit and geiser =E2=80=94 but that is specific to Emacs= . 4.6 > is about guile tools more generally. So I imagine something like the > blurbs about paredit and geiser, but then for hall and in 4.6? > > What do you think? > > I'm ok with that > > I'm somewhat puzzled by 4.7, it's about installing Guile code. > > It mentions system controlled locations (on traditional systems) such as = usr/lib/... > > it seems it assumes that people install guile object files by hand ? Right. I think this strengthens my believe it should go in 4.6. I would like new users to be able to get started with Hall, which just does the right thing (hopefully) in terms of installing files in the right places. And then, when the user is ready for it, they can dive deeper with 4.7. They can start grokking how load paths & compilation and the module system works etc. But as it stands =E2=80=94 I remember when I first started out with Guile = =E2=80=94 this stuff is confounding! By now I can see, first class modules are amazing. The introspective capabilities of Guile are a dream to work with; and understanding how these data structures map onto the file system is really useful. But it's definitely something that should be able to be a black box in the beginning! > On another side, if you have some .scm files scattered around, they > will be autocompiled and the result will be put into some well hidden > buried folder in your home folder > > [=E2=80=A6] > > it took me years to figure out the Guile distribution story and this > email is a distillate of years of confusion Thanks for this write-up. It is a very useful stab at categorising the different levels and moving parts involved. I'm taking all the emails in this discussion and will be thinking about them in the coming days. Clearly there *is*, not just a project bootstrapping role for Hall, but also a distribution/installation story. Something in between autotools and file-fiddling and the brutalist beauty of Guix. > I'll try to write a mention of guile-hall for the manual and send a > patch. > > Not right now, though. In the coming days Absolutely, thanks for offering! Happy to give your draft a once over if you want! Alex