From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic =?iso-8859-1?Q?Court=E8s?=) Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.user,gmane.lisp.guile.devel Subject: Re: Guile release planning Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 21:30:37 +0100 Message-ID: <87prl2m2du.fsf@gnu.org> References: <49dd78620811101723m6b014589ua01037d5ea3f17b9@mail.gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1226435506 8056 80.91.229.12 (11 Nov 2008 20:31:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 20:31:46 +0000 (UTC) Cc: guile-devel@gnu.org To: guile-user@gnu.org Original-X-From: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Nov 11 21:32:47 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-user@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Kzzug-00023S-Kt for guile-user@m.gmane.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 21:32:39 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35257 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KzztZ-0006RZ-2E for guile-user@m.gmane.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 15:31:29 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Kzzt5-0006I1-FH for guile-user@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 15:30:59 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Kzzt4-0006HH-Sd for guile-user@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 15:30:58 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=39931 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Kzzt4-0006H5-DH for guile-user@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 15:30:58 -0500 Original-Received: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.229.2]:47776 helo=ciao.gmane.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Kzzt4-0002BR-1r for guile-user@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 15:30:58 -0500 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Kzzsx-0004oQ-No for guile-user@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 20:30:51 +0000 Original-Received: from reverse-83.fdn.fr ([80.67.176.83]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 20:30:51 +0000 Original-Received: from ludo by reverse-83.fdn.fr with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 20:30:51 +0000 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Followup-To: gmane.lisp.guile.devel Original-Lines: 46 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: reverse-83.fdn.fr X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: 21 Brumaire an 217 de la =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9volution?= X-PGP-Key-ID: 0xEA52ECF4 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 821D 815D 902A 7EAB 5CEE D120 7FBA 3D4F EB1F 5364 X-OS: i686-pc-linux-gnu User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.3 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:NwHW+d+3KaKwMoORgGhbAv1tBi8= X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: guile-user@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: General Guile related discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.lisp.guile.user:6877 gmane.lisp.guile.devel:7828 Archived-At: Hello! "Neil Jerram" writes: > In my view, the most important thing for Guile's near-to-medium-term > future is focus. By that I mean having developers working on, and > users using, as far as possible, a similar level of code. In the > past, we did big jumps - from 1.4.x to 1.6.x, and from 1.6.x to 1.8.x > - which I think left users unable easily to upgrade, or perhaps just > unsure of whether to upgrade. From the developer point of view, they > increased the support burden (because of some users staying with the > old series). Also the big jump model can be frustrating for > developers, because it tends to mean that there is a long time between > when a shiny new feature is ready, and when it gets released and so > into the hands of most users. I fully agree with this, but... Your note doesn't take binary compatibility into account, and I think it's an important thing, too. I think the ideal is to maintain binary compatibility within a major series, as we've done (or tried to do) in the 1.8.x series. This is very convenient for binary distributions like Debian, and for users in general. Thus, introducing ABI incompatibilities should imply increasing the first or second digit of the version number, IMO. Maintaining ABI compatibility doesn't mean we can't add new features, though. In the course of the 1.8.x series, several Scheme modules were added. I think enhancements like the lazy symbol binding in modules could have been in theory added in 1.8.x since it breaks neither the API nor the ABI. Things like `libguile-i18n' could have been added too, but the issue when adding C code is portability: it may be that this module would have caused build issues on some platforms. Now, with more frequent releases, it would be reasonable to hope that such regressions would quickly be fixed. Another thing is actual big jumps. I think the addition of the VM is a big jump. A GC change, or a rewrite of the string/char code with Unicode support would be a big jump, too. Such big jumps surely need a new major release. BTW, we need to consider releasing 1.8.6 one of these days! ;-) Thanks! Ludo'.