From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Taylan Ulrich Bayirli/Kammer Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.user Subject: Re: A couple of questions about goops method parameters Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2014 12:44:01 +0200 Message-ID: <87d2b9f2q6.fsf@taylan.uni.cx> References: <1409905923.9245.5.camel@Renee-desktop.suse> <871trpridm.fsf@izanagi.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> <871trpkdbf.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87bnqtiukx.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1410000262 5161 80.91.229.3 (6 Sep 2014 10:44:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2014 10:44:22 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "guile-user@gnu.org" , Carlos Pita , David Thompson To: Panicz Maciej Godek Original-X-From: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 06 12:44:17 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-user@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XQDTb-0000np-Ug for guile-user@m.gmane.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2014 12:44:16 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34088 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XQDTb-0001FB-8y for guile-user@m.gmane.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2014 06:44:15 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:58819) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XQDTS-0001Et-R1 for guile-user@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2014 06:44:07 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XQDTR-0005sx-S2 for guile-user@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2014 06:44:06 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-lb0-x236.google.com ([2a00:1450:4010:c04::236]:45014) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XQDTR-0005sh-KO for guile-user@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2014 06:44:05 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-lb0-f182.google.com with SMTP id u10so14949209lbd.27 for ; Sat, 06 Sep 2014 03:44:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=kBla5aU7/fWI0n0w5TO3pVoKaY32M+whNoD5TjHLu+A=; b=0LdL+DZnbqr13kR6yyjla4LnL1kAfcVnHVp9D+CTYRdlfN4FEIuR7u3qMOdlATqwfa lP6ylTX0ScFw/y8U341WPHFTmA8gchEfFOKSCqz07RlIPW/8Hx53ZbPnhEd+xCD/wha1 gP2djUUPwzw783nHZDcLJTQwU9UGA0pRj+sKx9aQXY3EDkh5sfseCrmpd8PJordIzo0Y 7facyLEFKc/cp4sfGOHYUGhC81TjP5uSSawXOM91TVuS0SKdNgslKvGHozo/jsX6rnVn Wx5vAsQbzBxOiJ0/2r9MYz4xcm195469bi7U+Al+6sx2pFxkS9WwScREF8IbRLvxhT+i aVnQ== X-Received: by 10.112.56.148 with SMTP id a20mr16411661lbq.72.1410000243866; Sat, 06 Sep 2014 03:44:03 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from taylan.uni.cx (p200300514A1DE4510213E8FFFEED36FB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [2003:51:4a1d:e451:213:e8ff:feed:36fb]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id ue1sm1500092lac.48.2014.09.06.03.44.02 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 06 Sep 2014 03:44:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: (Panicz Maciej Godek's message of "Sat, 6 Sep 2014 10:53:58 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4010:c04::236 X-BeenThere: guile-user@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: General Guile related discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.lisp.guile.user:11475 Archived-At: Panicz Maciej Godek writes: > However, I'd rather say that the lack of any type system in Guile is > an inconvinience, because static type checking allows to avoid a huge > class of software errors, and a good type system (like the one in > Haskell) actually enhances language's expressiveness. It's an issue > that's been talked over so many times, that it's already present in > comic strips: > http://ro-che.info/ccc/17 I suspect that comic strip comes from someone who mostly witnessed silly flamewars between Haskellites with a higher-than-thou attitude, and CS unwary users of languages like JavaScript, Python, Ruby, etc. ;) In fact, the whole mention of a "battle" between the two groups, and showing zero overlap between the "proponents" of either strategy, tells me that the author is seriously misguided themselves. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but what's at least obvious is that the author is a fan of Haskell. I'm sure that most serious Lispers and other CS-aware dynlang users are aware of the expressive power of good static type systems, and have respect for ML and Miranda descendants. However, I don't know of any hard evidence for the relevancy of the class of bugs prevented by static typing, given there is otherwise good program design and documentation. Only recently I met a static typing proponent who was merely spiteful against the horrible practices of some web developers (JavaScript users) they worked with... A good optional static type system could be neat for Guile, but not sure what priority this should have. (For now I would rather want sealed modules and the ability to static-import them into another.) Taylan