From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Mark H Weaver Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.user Subject: Re: Can Guile be bootstrapped from source without psyntax-pp.scm? Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2017 12:40:46 -0400 Message-ID: <87d19cfbe9.fsf@netris.org> References: <87d19dr3kx.fsf@gmail.com> <87inj5f2eg.fsf@netris.org> <87podc1h53.fsf@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1499445703 9132 195.159.176.226 (7 Jul 2017 16:41:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2017 16:41:43 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.2 (gnu/linux) Cc: guile-user@gnu.org, bootstrappable@freelists.org To: Alex Vong Original-X-From: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 07 18:41:37 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-user@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dTWJy-0001pX-LH for guile-user@m.gmane.org; Fri, 07 Jul 2017 18:41:34 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57580 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dTWK2-0005Ls-9R for guile-user@m.gmane.org; Fri, 07 Jul 2017 12:41:38 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:34395) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dTWJV-0005Kh-CW for guile-user@gnu.org; Fri, 07 Jul 2017 12:41:06 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dTWJQ-00025u-H2 for guile-user@gnu.org; Fri, 07 Jul 2017 12:41:05 -0400 Original-Received: from world.peace.net ([50.252.239.5]:44007) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dTWJQ-00024j-Cz for guile-user@gnu.org; Fri, 07 Jul 2017 12:41:00 -0400 Original-Received: from pool-72-93-34-106.bstnma.east.verizon.net ([72.93.34.106] helo=jojen) by world.peace.net with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dTWJO-00048G-RE; Fri, 07 Jul 2017 12:40:59 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87podc1h53.fsf@gmail.com> (Alex Vong's message of "Fri, 07 Jul 2017 22:00:24 +0800") X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 50.252.239.5 X-BeenThere: guile-user@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: General Guile related discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "guile-user" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.lisp.guile.user:13904 Archived-At: Alex Vong writes: > Mark H Weaver writes: > >> At this point, I believe it would be quite feasible for a single hacker >> to audit our psyntax-pp.scm and compare it to psyntax.scm within a >> reasonable time frame. Furthermore, when we make local changes to >> psyntax.scm, the corresponding changes to psyntax-pp.scm are localized >> and quite easy to audit as well, so the full audit need not be repeated. >> > It is really good that small change in source --> small change in > binary. A fancy way of saying it: the map between source and binary is > in some sense "continuious". Sorry, I should have qualified my statement above with the word "usually". There are some kinds of local changes that result in non-local changes to psyntax-pp.scm, e.g. if one of the macros are changed. A particularly pessimal case is when the 'syntax-object' structure is changed, since its accessors are macros that are used throughout the code. This case actually happened recently in these commits: https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guile.git/commit/?h=stable-2.2&id=eb84c2f2da83cf04214bbacf4b33528ce09a5b1a https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guile.git/commit/?h=stable-2.2&id=a42bfae65f445178d3608433356ce132d1e7369e As far as I'm aware, this is the first time such a large non-local change has occurred since my work to minimize psyntax-pp.scm in 2012. Mark