From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic =?iso-8859-1?Q?Court=E8s?=) Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.user Subject: Re: Closure? Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 09:59:04 +0200 Message-ID: <87bq0z37ef.fsf@gnu.org> References: <49dd78620807121543l3de15e61lc5777c6bd2b628f1@mail.gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1216108780 24083 80.91.229.12 (15 Jul 2008 07:59:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 07:59:40 +0000 (UTC) To: guile-user@gnu.org Original-X-From: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 15 10:00:28 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-user@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KIfSR-0008Aw-Mc for guile-user@m.gmane.org; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 10:00:23 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36781 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KIfRZ-00030k-FV for guile-user@m.gmane.org; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 03:59:29 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KIfRU-00030e-Mw for guile-user@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 03:59:24 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KIfRT-00030N-7A for guile-user@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 03:59:24 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=45470 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KIfRT-00030J-3e for guile-user@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 03:59:23 -0400 Original-Received: from mx20.gnu.org ([199.232.41.8]:46591) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KIfRS-00025g-L0 for guile-user@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 03:59:22 -0400 Original-Received: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.229.2] helo=ciao.gmane.org) by mx20.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KIfRQ-0006f7-GP for guile-user@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 03:59:20 -0400 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1KIfRN-0002C7-Fv for guile-user@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 07:59:17 +0000 Original-Received: from 193.50.110.57 ([193.50.110.57]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 07:59:17 +0000 Original-Received: from ludo by 193.50.110.57 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 07:59:17 +0000 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 41 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 193.50.110.57 X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: 28 Messidor an 216 de la =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9volution?= X-PGP-Key-ID: 0xEA52ECF4 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 821D 815D 902A 7EAB 5CEE D120 7FBA 3D4F EB1F 5364 X-OS: i686-pc-linux-gnu User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.2 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:DcDJlCKaKbTKR400KowVzTfgcw4= X-detected-kernel: by mx20.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: guile-user@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: General Guile related discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.lisp.guile.user:6660 Archived-At: Hello, "Neil Jerram" writes: > 2008/7/11 Kjetil S. Matheussen : >> >> On Fri, 11 Jul 2008, Kjetil S. Matheussen wrote: >> >>> Ludovic Court?s: >>> > >>> > guile> ((lambda (a b) (the-environment)) 2 3) >>> > (((a b) 2 3) #) >>> > >>> > But don't do that, since the representation of environments could >>> > eventually change. > >> Sorry, I misunderstood. What I ment is that (the-environment) >> etc. is what makes Guile special. I hope there is no >> plans to remove all that. > > I agree. I can't see a reason why we might want to remove > `the-environment' and `local-eval', even if Guile's internal > representation of environments changes, because the ideas that there > _is_ a lexical environment inside a lambda (or a let ...), and that > one can evaluate with respect to these environments, are absolutely > fundamental in Scheme. Agreed. I just said the *representation* of closures could change. (Besides, keep in mind that `the-environment' et al. aren't documented...) > On the other hand, it would be unsafe (w.r.t. the future) to write > code that depends on the current representation. If you find yourself > doing that, better to ask for an official abstraction of whatever > you're trying to do. (And even better to provide a patch for it!) Agreed. Thanks, Ludovic.