r7rs libraries (or, Fwd: fmt for Guile)

r7rs libraries (or, Fwd: fmt for Guile)

[Christopher Allan Webber]

Not sure if this belongs on guile-user or guile-devel, but...

See below for a conversation Alex Shinn gave me permission to forward.

I asked Alex about getting Guile added to the set of
out-of-the-box-supported Scheme implementations for fmt; they replied
that they moved from fmt to a cleaned-up version called Show, but this
and all their libraries were going to R7RS only.  (We already have
irregex packaged for Guile in Guix; I imagine this means would affect
that library going forward as well.)

I'm not really sure what this means for us, since I think we don't
really have full R7RS support.  I wonder what this means for us moving
into the future, as more libraries move to support R7RS(-small, maybe
-large)?  Will we include a conversion layer, or maybe another language
layer on the VM?  Will we move to more support of R7RS-small out of the
box?  Will we not make this a priority altogether?  Will it depend on
people stepping forward, or is there a strong maintainer position either
way?

> Alex Shinn writes:
>
>> Hi Chris!
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 15, 2017 at 1:40 AM, Christopher Allan Webber <
>> cwebber@dustycloud.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Heya Alex!
>>>
>>> Thanks for your great libraries... I've packaged irregex for Guile on
>>> Guix and I use it and love it.
>>>
>>> I'm writing a MUD[0], and I'm planning on adding fmt support, so I need
>>> to package fmt for Guile.  I notice that there are fmt-gauche and etc
>>> files, maybe a fmt-guile file would be useful as well?  In case, here's
>>> one!
>>>
>>
>> Glad you like it!  I can see how fmt would be useful for
>> a mud.  Unfortunately, I don't have time to maintain my
>> libraries for multiple implementations, and instead write
>> everything as R7RS libraries now.  fmt has been cleaned
>> up and relabelled as (chibi show)
>> <http://snow-fort.org/s/gmail.com/alexshinn/chibi/show/0.7.3.1/index.html
>>.
>> I recommend you
>> either try to get the R7RS library syntax supported in
>> Guile (it's quite trivial), or build a static R7RS→Guile
>> library converter.  I can help, or possibly consider a
>> snow-fort→Guile bridge.
>>
>> [0] https://www.gnu.org/software/8sync/news/mudsync-lisp-game-jam.html
>>>
>>
>> Looks interesting, I may play around with this.

Re: r7rs libraries (or, Fwd: fmt for Guile)

[Ludovic Courtès]

Hello!

Christopher Allan Webber <cwebber@dustycloud.org> skribis:

> I asked Alex about getting Guile added to the set of
> out-of-the-box-supported Scheme implementations for fmt; they replied
> that they moved from fmt to a cleaned-up version called Show, but this
> and all their libraries were going to R7RS only.  (We already have
> irregex packaged for Guile in Guix; I imagine this means would affect
> that library going forward as well.)
>
> I'm not really sure what this means for us, since I think we don't
> really have full R7RS support.  I wonder what this means for us moving
> into the future, as more libraries move to support R7RS(-small, maybe
> -large)?  Will we include a conversion layer, or maybe another language
> layer on the VM?  Will we move to more support of R7RS-small out of the
> box?  Will we not make this a priority altogether?  Will it depend on
> people stepping forward, or is there a strong maintainer position either
> way?

I think it would be interesting to see what’s missing to use a specific
library like Show.  I suspect it’s “not much”, but probably that means
we’ll have to provide additional compatibility shims.

Ludo’.

Re: r7rs libraries (or, Fwd: fmt for Guile)

[Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer]

Christopher Allan Webber <cwebber@dustycloud.org> writes:

> Not sure if this belongs on guile-user or guile-devel, but...
>
> See below for a conversation Alex Shinn gave me permission to forward.
>
> I asked Alex about getting Guile added to the set of
> out-of-the-box-supported Scheme implementations for fmt; they replied
> that they moved from fmt to a cleaned-up version called Show, but this
> and all their libraries were going to R7RS only.  (We already have
> irregex packaged for Guile in Guix; I imagine this means would affect
> that library going forward as well.)
>
> I'm not really sure what this means for us, since I think we don't
> really have full R7RS support.  I wonder what this means for us moving
> into the future, as more libraries move to support R7RS(-small, maybe
> -large)?  Will we include a conversion layer, or maybe another language
> layer on the VM?  Will we move to more support of R7RS-small out of the
> box?  Will we not make this a priority altogether?  Will it depend on
> people stepping forward, or is there a strong maintainer position either
> way?

I have some improvements towards R7RS support after which, if I remember
correctly (it's been a while since I worked on it), most R7RS-small
libraries work just fine in Guile.

    https://github.com/TaylanUB/guile/tree/r7rs-wip

Last I tried to draw attention to my patches, everybody seemed too busy,
but people should feel free to pressure me any time to cooperate in case
there's more I can do.

I think Mark desired a rebase on master, where support for datum labels
could be implemented without dirty hacks or heavy performance cost,
unlike on stable-2.0.  Such a rebase seemed beyond my skills with
Guile's code-base last I checked...

Taylan


>> Alex Shinn writes:
>>
>>> Hi Chris!
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 15, 2017 at 1:40 AM, Christopher Allan Webber <
>>> cwebber@dustycloud.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Heya Alex!
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your great libraries... I've packaged irregex for Guile on
>>>> Guix and I use it and love it.
>>>>
>>>> I'm writing a MUD[0], and I'm planning on adding fmt support, so I need
>>>> to package fmt for Guile.  I notice that there are fmt-gauche and etc
>>>> files, maybe a fmt-guile file would be useful as well?  In case, here's
>>>> one!
>>>>
>>>
>>> Glad you like it!  I can see how fmt would be useful for
>>> a mud.  Unfortunately, I don't have time to maintain my
>>> libraries for multiple implementations, and instead write
>>> everything as R7RS libraries now.  fmt has been cleaned
>>> up and relabelled as (chibi show)
>>> <http://snow-fort.org/s/gmail.com/alexshinn/chibi/show/0.7.3.1/index.html
>>>.
>>> I recommend you
>>> either try to get the R7RS library syntax supported in
>>> Guile (it's quite trivial), or build a static R7RS→Guile
>>> library converter.  I can help, or possibly consider a
>>> snow-fort→Guile bridge.
>>>
>>> [0] https://www.gnu.org/software/8sync/news/mudsync-lisp-game-jam.html
>>>>
>>>
>>> Looks interesting, I may play around with this.

Re: r7rs libraries (or, Fwd: fmt for Guile)

[Mark H Weaver]

taylanbayirli@gmail.com (Taylan Ulrich "Bayırlı/Kammer") writes:

> Christopher Allan Webber <cwebber@dustycloud.org> writes:
>
>> Not sure if this belongs on guile-user or guile-devel, but...
>>
>> See below for a conversation Alex Shinn gave me permission to forward.
>>
>> I asked Alex about getting Guile added to the set of
>> out-of-the-box-supported Scheme implementations for fmt; they replied
>> that they moved from fmt to a cleaned-up version called Show, but this
>> and all their libraries were going to R7RS only.  (We already have
>> irregex packaged for Guile in Guix; I imagine this means would affect
>> that library going forward as well.)
>>
>> I'm not really sure what this means for us, since I think we don't
>> really have full R7RS support.  I wonder what this means for us moving
>> into the future, as more libraries move to support R7RS(-small, maybe
>> -large)?  Will we include a conversion layer, or maybe another language
>> layer on the VM?  Will we move to more support of R7RS-small out of the
>> box?  Will we not make this a priority altogether?  Will it depend on
>> people stepping forward, or is there a strong maintainer position either
>> way?
>
> I have some improvements towards R7RS support after which, if I remember
> correctly (it's been a while since I worked on it), most R7RS-small
> libraries work just fine in Guile.
>
>     https://github.com/TaylanUB/guile/tree/r7rs-wip
>
> Last I tried to draw attention to my patches, everybody seemed too busy,
> but people should feel free to pressure me any time to cooperate in case
> there's more I can do.
>
> I think Mark desired a rebase on master, where support for datum labels
> could be implemented without dirty hacks or heavy performance cost,
> unlike on stable-2.0.  Such a rebase seemed beyond my skills with
> Guile's code-base last I checked...

I'll work on it.

      Mark