From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Arne Babenhauserheide Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.user Subject: Re: How to make GNU Guile more successful Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2017 23:21:39 +0100 Message-ID: <8737fg5s7g.fsf@web.de> References: <87lgtajpkc.fsf@web.de> <878tp967p4.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87shnhabln.fsf@web.de> <87r33162wa.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1487110935 8638 195.159.176.226 (14 Feb 2017 22:22:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2017 22:22:15 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: mu4e 0.9.16; emacs 25.1.1 Cc: guile-user@gnu.org To: David Kastrup Original-X-From: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Feb 14 23:22:09 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-user@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cdlU4-0001Ra-Vx for guile-user@m.gmane.org; Tue, 14 Feb 2017 23:22:05 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37460 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cdlUA-0000eQ-Cg for guile-user@m.gmane.org; Tue, 14 Feb 2017 17:22:10 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:60029) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cdlTn-0000eI-Kb for guile-user@gnu.org; Tue, 14 Feb 2017 17:21:48 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cdlTm-0004jS-ID for guile-user@gnu.org; Tue, 14 Feb 2017 17:21:47 -0500 Original-Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.15.4]:49758) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cdlTi-0004i7-Hi; Tue, 14 Feb 2017 17:21:42 -0500 Original-Received: from fluss ([85.212.4.135]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb002 [213.165.67.108]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0M3jof-1cLp3N3HZR-00rFDG; Tue, 14 Feb 2017 23:21:41 +0100 In-reply-to: <87r33162wa.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:BVz9kkBGiAZesaY7qfneKVHiwW16b9U0Grqlc2wUIjcOzpJHajH 69jDMXE3cMskmU3q70cTmIq7Mh+60wHc0pV7jXs4jd2vN1MviI5kd9IqmyBWBPzIBkRvDAJ JdoBwP+fHbxOBJhw6xivG/PDwQrEMVDrZ5o+2Vv8oQFV/DSO4fxpB98qClPs834Ui4MJPEV nYBFEFpFQ/fOL2RRnbGtA== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:UY5dPaDz8s4=:nMSy+H7cNwey0atwtltAf4 HUKt4YRdWUe/nC7PZS+nlXhoePR0TcYSD8YMnU4Qb6E6kWxHC6Xavi7XwJiB9Cansp0orCs0b o9GZkFKK4bWQEYt3KuwY0SKbJfsbb8lZtfLCmgkK6/AiXaaI4NYhPNbow64njdtA5nzSu9brM PRMhTjlzKF+pQfP5jwUlzl706NwLzsR3UhXK+T5Gjn12oVROcBchUDzsPH+xHkmnCCQ9VMr6O JETOE7AraiVLSOJ7c7LqaGhHg3n0ZPgPQXQIj9KsTJPlPZRREz04Ky1wWVPE0vbT/Q1BAptqQ HtQYsmxHxAZfFSTRWDLnIKlpgFQSeId5qL1QWyqCb3HAZvjN0TZfz/ClBP0JF3SjnQ/O7T6S9 GzVhH5B/Ka+7vna9i2ZJqBOcRUKujXsxbY8o4fmGGLVrxF+FuAQMB4ZTPq3Gr07WuDX2NGQt1 64T8SYxzUtSAwwtSDLk7RVnwUt7rFpJxquwLbt/FvFO8GkvpEhgK+7XCYX+GpxIbihyvWTaIu NiKelpXT8WInZjWC22GEcYtftiSnM62ajpYyD77tg1EmfqAMYpHHS3csxR2yb6wYwNBBk4pK7 ddNP+BWY64NP9Ix5gXagm2SmAI31YfRXje0ZcdhcbnXoTlIW13Ies10B6ANCxraAAfXVPd0ZX S+r4cMuxx+p3Eq+dCJ5eaIJ70mFYyHsAuyEJNMxsldEsTeABbyOZXmFOUEMKIJki98izmtgar jmK0SUro/fFUIhiJLsnD4+gJYzrRO/odLndRQh5caVs1vOfF8m6Irn1Yye8= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 212.227.15.4 X-BeenThere: guile-user@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: General Guile related discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "guile-user" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.lisp.guile.user:13212 Archived-At: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable David Kastrup writes: > Arne Babenhauserheide writes: > >> Marko Rauhamaa writes: >>> I have typed this message in emacs. >> >> Same for me, but getting people to use Emacs is harder. It might not >> *be* that complicated, but it *feels* different. >> >>> In my opinion one of the worst problems with Scheme is the Schemers: >>> Scheme lovers are often far too enthusiastic with defining new, esoteric >>> syntax instead of solving practical problems. >>> >>> Then, there's GOOPS, which in my opinion is simply an unnatural way to >>> go about object-oriented programming. It does violence both to ordinary >>> OO way of thinking and classic Lisp idioms. >> >> GOOPS works pretty well for me where I use it (for dispatch by >> type). Could you clarify your criticism: Do you think it is bad or is it >> just different? > > My main beef with GOOPS is that it does not help with narrowing down on > a solution but rather with extending the problem space. It is too > generic to provide guidance and a cohesive framework: if two different > people solve problems using GOOPS, the likelihood that those solutions > can be connected in interface or design better than non-GOOPS solutions > is slim. That=E2=80=99s a good point. A framework which provides that guidance could be built on top of GOOPS, though. Or would that carry around too much burden from the generic approach it=E2=80=99s based on? Best wishes, Arne =2D-=20 Unpolitisch sein hei=C3=9Ft politisch sein ohne es zu merken --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJYo4LzAAoJEBPvjUUkA8Pr9uQP/i1JjWsrYEczjH/Liq5VHRDO 4hacdYWixBv8B97IhmbQaDZvXLWAyWrLe6PpaM/FiZbVD4wmsq3dV/mEUiDMPqTE clONDG55RMLUKXkoiL+aqr/FoifBe2j5bx+wJoo1z45L2DXrdI1lfsueYvKv92cp f3iBOkyFMuqC3RN8Omvjj9KVe18NJ1pKJrHw1PcVyBdc5Uf+ZEuy9uvLHB/JRp7r m8ShL0WCOQ0K33c59NsmjyETBD8hlhWuS8lEpF0a4INJbwtXsTUdV2v2mm2kGgyd 31y40YedPnwD4UNYhhRU97dSH6jTpqdd2qcMO8N38icij4K8EfXV7KX0leSJ7NCD 0WXBX2NI5phOMilX39TZMZiiTsNPp0LELykT/F+oAsZY6jwuPL4Dr2NeN9mOXENF mSjnt23THl2o6wUlwbHmysvdoUfCzagF39lddINhvXVPooUEqAVEr96/P37MUAQe asQ8sZdg1kEpvn8lZj7n+qBeU6zlAbzEHdYRQu274BNh2eeMNO2QYSF2sAqzW7it RwQ2xqm886PTORSRmNTpd+1zl5+eVI77YL1chUdhs0Ucxufj3y9MStaoI2nYcovl oMtgXMxoARoffcXIc3h8Ltmf6x0kA0I0pLVmFZXvKqOC75rQ0KHpUWReo0PVvzVT QDEmvuWdBsITQ0K3DXoC =9kwC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--