From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.user Subject: Re: guile can't find a chinese named file Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 11:07:28 +0200 Message-ID: <834lztxk1b.fsf@gnu.org> References: <878tpsqtzl.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83zihmy6wb.fsf@gnu.org> <87wpcq38sa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87efyy4k4c.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87mvdmv3kg.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <8760ka4drd.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87h93uv1kl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <871suy4cha.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <877f4qv0a8.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87wpcq2w58.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <871suyuyby.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <83tw7uxg1o.fsf@gnu.org> <87efyyt7jb.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <83o9y2xc3w.fsf@gnu.org> <87o9y2yo9k.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <83h93ux9br.fsf@gnu.org> <87efyyyln3.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <83fujdyk0y.fsf@gnu.org> <87r32xoo2n.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <8737fdzvnk.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <83bmu1xqns.fsf@gnu.org> <871suxtdav.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1487323159 9120 195.159.176.226 (17 Feb 2017 09:19:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 09:19:19 +0000 (UTC) Cc: guile-user@gnu.org, dak@gnu.org To: Marko Rauhamaa Original-X-From: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Feb 17 10:19:15 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-user@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ceeh6-0001iK-EG for guile-user@m.gmane.org; Fri, 17 Feb 2017 10:19:12 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52373 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ceehA-00078D-De for guile-user@m.gmane.org; Fri, 17 Feb 2017 04:19:16 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:52965) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ceeVQ-0005FT-9r for guile-user@gnu.org; Fri, 17 Feb 2017 04:07:09 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ceeVK-0004Cs-FJ for guile-user@gnu.org; Fri, 17 Feb 2017 04:07:08 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:39540) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ceeVK-0004Co-Bc; Fri, 17 Feb 2017 04:07:02 -0500 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:3532 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ceeVJ-00086A-72; Fri, 17 Feb 2017 04:07:01 -0500 In-reply-to: <871suxtdav.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> (message from Marko Rauhamaa on Fri, 17 Feb 2017 10:46:32 +0200) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: guile-user@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: General Guile related discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "guile-user" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.lisp.guile.user:13280 Archived-At: > From: Marko Rauhamaa > Cc: dak@gnu.org, guile-user@gnu.org > Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 10:46:32 +0200 > > > IMO, it makes no sense to limit this to file names, because (a) you > > don't always know on all levels of the code which string is a file > > name or a part thereof; and (b) because situations where non-ASCII > > bytes cannot be properly decoded into Unicode happen with text that is > > not file names, and users still expect Emacs to silently produce the > > same byte stream on round-trip operations, e.g., when copying text > > from one file to another. > > Python just barfs: > > $ python3 -c "import sys; print(sys.stdin.read(30))" <<<$'\xdd' > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "", line 1, in > File "/usr/lib64/python3.5/codecs.py", line 321, in decode > (result, consumed) = self._buffer_decode(data, self.errors, final) > UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xdd in position \ > 0: invalid continuation byte Which is a bad idea, IME: users won't appreciate their program to barf when all they want is to copy a chunk of text from one place to another, without changing anything in it. > The situation is a bit difficult to recover from. If you assume valid UTF-8 everywhere, certainly. The world is more complex than that. Emacs is known to be used for, e.g., searching binary executable files for text patterns; if it required the user to say in advance that the file was binary, so that Emacs could handle it as a byte array, that would be a major annoyance, and worse: it would prevent the users from searching valid non-ASCII text in such a binary file. So Emacs allows treating binary files as text files with a certain encoding that have some raw bytes which don't fit that encoding. IMO, Guile will do its users a service if it provides similar features, because applications with similar needs are entirely reasonable in today's world.