From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Michael Schierl Newsgroups: gmane.comp.gnu.guix.devel,gmane.lisp.guile.user Subject: Re: [bootstrappable] Re: Can Guile be bootstrapped from source without psyntax-pp.scm? Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2021 20:50:07 +0100 Message-ID: <6d533331-87f7-414b-7422-276530798194@gmx.de> References: <87zgz4cpib.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="25880"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; de; rv:1.8.1.23) Gecko/20090812 Thunderbird/2.0.0.23 Mnenhy/0.7.5.0 Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, guile-user@gnu.org, bootstrappable@freelists.org To: =?UTF-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=c3=a8s?= Original-X-From: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Mar 15 21:00:23 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: gcggd-guix-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lLtO3-0006dr-IO for gcggd-guix-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 15 Mar 2021 21:00:23 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53720 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lLtO2-0002gF-JO for gcggd-guix-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 15 Mar 2021 16:00:22 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:37918) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lLtEE-0006A5-T3; Mon, 15 Mar 2021 15:50:14 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.20]:46141) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lLtEC-0004Je-Nz; Mon, 15 Mar 2021 15:50:14 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1615837807; bh=m9x6VemHBdqIid/HluWprm0lEqBhucDPqEzFtnBVvzU=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:To:Cc:References:From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To; b=OShdacmfYkU6BG4FL+cetyZ4Jvx8/8NrNUNUc7ulxBi7zpkmhWpKObSTXff72vr1+ sUEgTDdwKZY95fWST2bIfKskwYy6lq0KnaMM1GMv+IHRcb5R8d0YfUg3nd9jKhj8lA uJLseZlZBsExTsTCKeVTlxioryoFaszd6BxQDA04= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Original-Received: from [192.168.178.23] ([84.130.57.43]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx104 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MYeR1-1lGgH6145r-00VchV; Mon, 15 Mar 2021 20:50:07 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87zgz4cpib.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Language: de-DE X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:3PvEcihZR8N5DMfLITnozSHFxQ3NptMKtucAEWu2t5mu4LwoLbi w35t86UthXA4J0eydXD4HqjD4oGeldZuSfMKPGZ0zZ75z/K8+UMPRO2Mk8tCcUlpXvz3var /LNEK1gY8svmTChdw15HbB8bIZZVuS+FYZlhNKNy3xVR8Ry7D3obrdcLUzHqlxeUmrjDr98 pTRkdQ+JeY37HRFU5EHWw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:HVEnqccks6o=:hE3YtuW9iFL07D9MmYcJA1 J+owKt39QlkKRROdJ60HhqADYFa7ESwqOS4w/Pw5GhC/9rrhbC9hzwLawYKrOetMixjvI1gFD g8Rx2CZGKxqs0+2p8Ivaa+AW4cn+DR0ghMxWHTKXJwBaCm32h3NDieCYRQMZZcLJ7lXo+dsot 0J364MiH+hIptqEjV1vMuhxLFa7W4eQF/iqllB5MxE7cuSZzbkKNtBUWp1U5MEBQDpcnjsn+3 URuao1YFmGjk+asTeUMGLlftv1d7fLEwpt+MwObf9c88IBPVA7Jlf2hWpkNAPs7i4mrohf3Xy bWwf9Om7EddLEbVyzGB5gt5X8fUn+WoWTNBnVhIfEcBJ0iJm1HKAFTLJnLwn58Pg5jo+moMGd qtr2nG/afkY67reAZO6BRT5IKJ2NR6eTeNuQsXg/XCr5QM3CMdaFcvMy1+X2x6dFujdr18UG+ +33+ennF64M654H57lLo0jzRvJtSBfbWEKkQSZboFgdjAeIgutozqVoucwrssIGV2jcJMICnN arydFqxtXqsIBR2fOLV8TqXPzNJlwUeNB4Y0tWDnDDaLh5wOKkmUy3Vwaw6Oy5rup1lpNx2MA VN/a3yqIUVGRFFSsFyZtUncdY1u2/GOEJoEADCuW4UfPqcAGFkAYs0aIArwn2SkWt4WODgoOe cu02YCOgo+NJFAzNt14rbjrMb+gu6aRg5y+Pz1tdM49Hvw1pOxmO0+fL7/aWmltDufZZObbCK z8RCqoFgEIfQS7XECNtPRx1NOF4SPsq/c+MFh0wJgmuzQrxZLXP0Vw5OIZ6EqV1nuX/J+HyI Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.17.20; envelope-from=schierlm@gmx.de; helo=mout.gmx.net X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Guix-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.comp.gnu.guix.devel:57891 gmane.lisp.guile.user:17365 Archived-At: Hello Ludo=E2=80=99, Am 15.03.2021 um 18:09 schrieb Ludovic Court=C3=A8s: > Woow, this is great news! I think it would be great towards importing > it in Guile proper. > > To do that, I think we should first get Andy=E2=80=99s opinion on the ap= proach. I don't think upstream is very interested in having psyntax-pp.scm bootstrappable. In Guile 3.0.3 they broke even the `make ice-9/psyntax-pp.scm.gen` target, and did not repair it even in Guile 3.0.5, that's why I used 3.0.2 for the bootstrap. But I included a patch to repair it in 3.0.5 in case you really want to bootstrap that version (psyntax-pp.scm has not changed there). OTOH, from the git log it seems like psyntax is currently being overhauled for the next release, so probably my code would need some updates for the next version. Also, in the last 15 years I avoided directly contributing to "GNU projects" (with FSF as copyright holder in the license headers), reasons below. But if anyone else takes my code and upstreams it, I won't object. Regardless, even when not part of Guile, I believe this code is very useful for both the live-bootstrap project and Guix to get their Guile bootstrapped. And even if nobody ever updates it for 3.0.6+, you can always bootstrap the later versions from an earlier Guile. And maybe a variation of it lands in GNU Mes, too. And now for the reasons. It happened first to me 17 years ago, what others would have called an honor, a private email from RMS himself if I would consider upstreaming some of my code into GNU Emacs. I answered to feel free to take it, since it is GPLv3+ (or was it GPLv2+ at that point? not sure) anyway, and he replied that it is not that easy since first they need a to have me sign "copyright assignment papers" and asked for a postal address to send them. I was able to find an old version of that assignment online and it included some clauses I was unwilling to sign, so I asked if FSF could send me an electronic version first before I give them my postal address so they can snail mail me the dead-tree version, just to avoid work on their side assuming that I may not be willing to sign that anyway. As FSF was unable/unwilling to do so, it all stopped, until, years later somebody asked me to contribute some of my code to ELPA. I guess I can spare you the details, they would bore you. I'm not at all against contracts, the http://developercertificate.org/ (which I agreed to before contributing a 2-line bugfix to the Linux kernel) has recently got some traction, and also I've signed Google's Contributor License Agreement. However, I would not sign Oracle's Contributor License Agremment (the last version of it that I checked), not because of the company but because of its contents. Regards, Michael