From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Zelphir Kaltstahl Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.user Subject: Re: GPT-4 knows Guile! :) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2023 10:56:38 +0000 Message-ID: <2cc18425-c5dc-0ff8-1bc2-5c9a97386296@posteo.de> References: <1d0e0407-de72-8e63-9e5d-b26097a7ddb1@jamescm.co.uk> <87jzzcb9wa.fsf@web.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="31780"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: guile-user@gnu.org To: "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" , tomas@tuxteam.de Original-X-From: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Mar 20 11:57:12 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-user@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1peDCQ-0007yj-Rz for guile-user@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 20 Mar 2023 11:57:10 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1peDC7-0003yT-7h; Mon, 20 Mar 2023 06:56:51 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1peDC2-0003u1-Q9 for guile-user@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Mar 2023 06:56:46 -0400 Original-Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1peDC0-00056R-Eg for guile-user@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Mar 2023 06:56:46 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3826424008E for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2023 11:56:40 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.de; s=2017; t=1679309801; bh=P0urcE4+lAjChPpvD3u6OfqjKX9Xp+Fdr+94fgwvWUk=; h=Date:Subject:To:Cc:From:From; b=am94AXdaJ4/ZmsL7wsmA/bcaqLTiefS6pg2irB7/24aIWL6fhaByxfMZDIRPQKCbI GJFF0lCIwfGqkg3Z/oDUpdlGizTq1q8ftq4TVM7is93GV5IZtG/vmbLtzMHZ9bESGD rPYoDD+l6Aflu5h/J9spHLYLKeUTfMMDiw2CaItEm0SxEJCzQPHt3T2AM1sZLk4Bpo LUxRPb8EWwZfSU7R1OYb2/t3r/lpVFhoJrVjShPiq5fNY7drJidrGUeF6J4Y9M1Tnv V+BA/j8EoaXQCzOF+AfRLvLRMqX9CwtBAIEihzy4gh+vc+KJMzk35RqruyqF0QgS02 9EtJN4rWwuh+Q== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4PgBWC239Tz9rxd; Mon, 20 Mar 2023 11:56:39 +0100 (CET) Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <87jzzcb9wa.fsf@web.de> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=zelphirkaltstahl@posteo.de; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guile-user@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: General Guile related discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.lisp.guile.user:18947 Archived-At: On 3/20/23 00:18, Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > writes: >> which has tried to be free (in both senses). For images, there is >> Stable Diffusion (disclaimer:I don't know much about them). For >> raw data, there's Common Crawl [3], which is Stable Diffusion's > Stable diffusion has one of the most evil licenses I’ve read till now: > using its images seems to be allowed for almost all proprietary uses, > but illegal for free culture use. See the explicit questions about that > here: https://github.com/CompVis/stable-diffusion/issues/131 > > A license that makes its output only usable for proprietary creations > but not for free culture is like the polar opposite of the GPL or CC > by-sa: making a tool that gives proprietary creations an advantage over > Free Culture. That would double evil, since they most likely trained their stuff on freely available things. Basically taking from our culture, but not giving anything back and netting the profits. My biggest concerns about these big machine learning models are: (1) The laundering character, be it code, other texts, prose and to on, or artworks.—What and where are their sources? Complete list of inputs? Where is a form, that allows me to make my works invisible to past, present and future models they produce, without being tracked by Google and its ilk? How will artists and others be able to safely, securely, and unambiguously tell them "no"? Oh wait, it is basically impossible to remove something from a learned model after the fact. Duh! How about asking beforehand? In the end it is the same typical kind of shitty behavior we see from entities like FB, oh wait, they call themselves "Meta" now lol.: "Oh what you want is soooo complicated to do and would be sooo much effort! We cannot possibly be expected to do that, so sorry!"—Well then don't start doing what you do in the first place! If doing it ethically does not scale, then don't friggin start scaling! (2) Establishment of paywalls and unethical registration forms. Soon some employers might ask their employees to "be more efficient" by using GPT models and either buying licenses, or even demanding employees buy them themselves, while of course completely neglecting to think about the license terms or what happens to the data we input into those prompts. Registration might even require us to input personal data, like where we live or our names. (3) Also no one seems to think about not being able to use these tools on ethical grounds: I visited the GTP website and thought: "OK lets give it a try.", but then I could not even do that, unless I allowed tech giants to track me. No thanks! Tab closed. Given how they seems to act so far, I do not expect them to set up any sane login or website any time soon. (4) It might take years again before any of that gets properly regulated. First it might be shittly regulated, because of governments not asking experts or if asking experts asking the ones with heavy bias for their employers (like consulting Microsoft for publicly in government used software …). Regards, Zelphir -- repositories: https://notabug.org/ZelphirKaltstahl