From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)" Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.user Subject: Re: Diversification [ branched from Re: conflicts in the gnu project now affect guile] Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 08:44:54 +0200 Message-ID: <20191023064454.62ibetmd55ckxvgb@pelzflorian.localdomain> References: <-IsD5PBFie-kW2VJSYNHx00LodtSHflKNWtY2vjNVQDN126iTMsqHrdxl8zeWE8a53TzM_27wskjsrylIh4bN5jIGVNYOBC6zmE3p1RGyBg=@protonmail.com> <87ftjk1us3.fsf@netris.org> <907270af-1f2f-42f3-ec36-047fdd48a74f@posteo.de> <20191023002427.f91e23fa3475223c648487b4@gmail.com> <52f11940-4770-86fe-d669-0287c62becd8@posteo.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="165593"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 Cc: guile-user@gnu.org To: Zelphir Kaltstahl Original-X-From: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 23 09:31:53 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-user@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iNB7Y-000gy0-VZ for guile-user@m.gmane.org; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 09:31:53 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56080 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iNB7X-0002Yz-9l for guile-user@m.gmane.org; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 03:31:51 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38559) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iNAOB-0006bA-8H for guile-user@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 02:45:01 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iNAO9-0000h0-JC for guile-user@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 02:44:58 -0400 Original-Received: from pelzflorian.de ([5.45.111.108]:59230 helo=mail.pelzflorian.de) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iNAO9-0000gA-3i for guile-user@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 02:44:57 -0400 Original-Received: from pelzflorian.localdomain (unknown [5.45.111.108]) by mail.pelzflorian.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A14453604C5; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 08:44:54 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=pelzflorian.de; s=mail; t=1571813094; bh=egnCoy9WAWPyyKoifJnrvFPNPoecc47rW7LvODtm4fQ=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; b=AgUcdO1RX6wX5HhhFi/XRWcuIky70hAHIrBg4t7Z+oem3usKGGCVkA332Lv5yg/PU qDsG1+yRMB/YeAtAok3K+VEQLj3qXv2ohZM42FRN0eG7alOmmQUKDO4QcbupOE/8YS DAoDP2tizoyWv4lZ2NJpN/7ID2e9D93IzRUawPQc= Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <52f11940-4770-86fe-d669-0287c62becd8@posteo.de> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 5.45.111.108 X-BeenThere: guile-user@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: General Guile related discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "guile-user" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.lisp.guile.user:15789 Archived-At: On Wed, Oct 23, 2019 at 02:57:03AM +0200, Zelphir Kaltstahl wrote: > You did not address the other point I raised though: Dependency on a > third party server (and all the implications, when/if it gets hacked > again). A matrix server and its coordination server could be hosted by anyone; AFAIK it is simple HTTP. Most projects would not host the coordination server themselves though. I do not know the legal implications from offering encrypted, private communications which would AFAIK be offered implicitly when using Matrix even though we do not need it. It may be legally preferrable to have a serverless communications medium that need not be hosted, Gnunet-style (not to mention that supporting another GNU project fits well). My outdated impression is that the Gnunet project is far from offering popular messaging apps though. Additionally, few people have real security. Most people download software from all over the internets and run it. At the very least, people's operating system provider could be forced by law or by crackers to push a trojan via update. Claiming more security than what can be offered seems dishonest. > There is also the problem of non-searchable content. You cannot, as far > as I know, search in a search engine through Discord or Riot messages. > If content by tendency of "quickly solving the problem in chat" moves to > non-searchable medium, it will mean, that searching in search engines > does not benefit from those solutions. > There should be searchable logs. I am confident searchable logs can be implemented for Matrix like they can with IRC. Matrix may be a step forward from IRC or it may not matter at all. I do not know as I am not using synchronous communication personally. Regards, Florian