* Stepping back up as a co-maintainer @ 2019-10-16 5:41 Mark H Weaver 2019-10-16 8:30 ` Vladimir Zhbanov ` (3 more replies) 0 siblings, 4 replies; 20+ messages in thread From: Mark H Weaver @ 2019-10-16 5:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: guile-devel, guile-user Hello all, In light of recent events, I've decided to step back up as a co-maintainer of GNU Guile. Thanks, Mark ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: Stepping back up as a co-maintainer 2019-10-16 5:41 Stepping back up as a co-maintainer Mark H Weaver @ 2019-10-16 8:30 ` Vladimir Zhbanov 2019-10-16 13:38 ` sirgazil ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread From: Vladimir Zhbanov @ 2019-10-16 8:30 UTC (permalink / raw) To: guile-user On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 01:41:00AM -0400, Mark H Weaver wrote: > Hello all, > > In light of recent events, I've decided to step back up as a > co-maintainer of GNU Guile. > > Thanks, > Mark > Glad to hear it, thank you :-) -- Vladimir (λ)επτόν EDA — https://github.com/lepton-eda ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: Stepping back up as a co-maintainer 2019-10-16 5:41 Stepping back up as a co-maintainer Mark H Weaver 2019-10-16 8:30 ` Vladimir Zhbanov @ 2019-10-16 13:38 ` sirgazil 2019-10-16 18:28 ` Jean Louis 2019-10-17 9:27 ` zx spectrumgomas 3 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread From: sirgazil @ 2019-10-16 13:38 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Mark H Weaver; +Cc: guile-devel, guile-user ---- On Wed, 16 Oct 2019 00:41:00 -0500 Mark H Weaver <mhw@netris.org> wrote ---- > Hello all, > > In light of recent events, I've decided to step back up as a > co-maintainer of GNU Guile. > > Thanks, > Mark > > \o/ --- https://sirgazil.bitbucket.io/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: Stepping back up as a co-maintainer 2019-10-16 5:41 Stepping back up as a co-maintainer Mark H Weaver 2019-10-16 8:30 ` Vladimir Zhbanov 2019-10-16 13:38 ` sirgazil @ 2019-10-16 18:28 ` Jean Louis 2019-10-17 9:27 ` zx spectrumgomas 3 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread From: Jean Louis @ 2019-10-16 18:28 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Mark H Weaver; +Cc: guile-user, guile-devel * Mark H Weaver <mhw@netris.org> [2019-10-16 01:42]: > Hello all, > > In light of recent events, I've decided to step back up as a > co-maintainer of GNU Guile. I am welcoming it, thank you for stepping back up. Jean ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: Stepping back up as a co-maintainer 2019-10-16 5:41 Stepping back up as a co-maintainer Mark H Weaver ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2019-10-16 18:28 ` Jean Louis @ 2019-10-17 9:27 ` zx spectrumgomas 2019-10-17 10:24 ` Mikael Djurfeldt 3 siblings, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread From: zx spectrumgomas @ 2019-10-17 9:27 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Mark H Weaver; +Cc: Guile Mailing List, guile-devel I'm a simple Guile user and I hope I'm wrong, but I think Mark H weaver are saying half-thruth here https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guile-devel/2019-10/msg00021.html because he has a very close friendship witch Richard Stallmam: "I've known RMS for a long time. For a few years, I spent most of my time two doors down from him at the MIT AI lab. I was the FSF staff sysadmin for a while, and did sysadmin work on RMS's laptop. I was his preferred typist when he shattered his elbow and helped him replace his bandages, etc." http://logs.guix.gnu.org/guile/2014-08-09.log I think the joint statement https://guix.gnu.org/blog/2019/joint-statement-on-the-gnu-project/ is the true key factor of his return. On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 7:42 AM Mark H Weaver <mhw@netris.org> wrote: > Hello all, > > In light of recent events, I've decided to step back up as a > co-maintainer of GNU Guile. > > Thanks, > Mark > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: Stepping back up as a co-maintainer 2019-10-17 9:27 ` zx spectrumgomas @ 2019-10-17 10:24 ` Mikael Djurfeldt 2019-10-17 10:33 ` tomas 2019-10-17 10:52 ` zx spectrumgomas 0 siblings, 2 replies; 20+ messages in thread From: Mikael Djurfeldt @ 2019-10-17 10:24 UTC (permalink / raw) To: zx spectrumgomas; +Cc: guile-user, guile-devel I think we should trust what Mark says and not second guess him. Helping or being friend with someone is not among the worst crimes on my list. Den tors 17 okt. 2019 11:28zx spectrumgomas <spectrumgomas@gmail.com> skrev: > I'm a simple Guile user and I hope I'm wrong, but I think Mark H weaver are > saying half-thruth here > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guile-devel/2019-10/msg00021.html > because he has a very close friendship witch Richard Stallmam: > "I've known RMS for a long time. For a few years, I spent most of my time > two doors down from him at the MIT AI lab. I was the FSF staff sysadmin for > a while, and did sysadmin work on RMS's laptop. I was his preferred typist > when he shattered his elbow and helped him replace his bandages, etc." > http://logs.guix.gnu.org/guile/2014-08-09.log > > I think the joint statement > https://guix.gnu.org/blog/2019/joint-statement-on-the-gnu-project/ is the > true key factor of his return. > > On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 7:42 AM Mark H Weaver <mhw@netris.org> wrote: > > > Hello all, > > > > In light of recent events, I've decided to step back up as a > > co-maintainer of GNU Guile. > > > > Thanks, > > Mark > > > > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: Stepping back up as a co-maintainer 2019-10-17 10:24 ` Mikael Djurfeldt @ 2019-10-17 10:33 ` tomas 2019-10-17 13:03 ` Eli Zaretskii 2019-10-17 10:52 ` zx spectrumgomas 1 sibling, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread From: tomas @ 2019-10-17 10:33 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Mikael Djurfeldt; +Cc: zx spectrumgomas, guile-user, guile-devel [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 484 bytes --] On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 12:24:03PM +0200, Mikael Djurfeldt wrote: > I think we should trust what Mark says and not second guess him. Definitely. I think this should count for *all*. Second-guessing anyone in this difficult situation can only add more difficulties on top. I think each of us should apply Hanlon's razor with much generosity. Towards all people involved (that doesn't mean we should paper over the obvious problems we have, mind you). Cheers -- tomás [-- Attachment #2: Digital signature --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 198 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: Stepping back up as a co-maintainer 2019-10-17 10:33 ` tomas @ 2019-10-17 13:03 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2019-10-17 13:03 UTC (permalink / raw) To: tomas; +Cc: spectrumgomas, guile-user, guile-devel > Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2019 12:33:33 +0200 > From: <tomas@tuxteam.de> > Cc: zx spectrumgomas <spectrumgomas@gmail.com>, guile-user <guile-user@gnu.org>, > guile-devel <guile-devel@gnu.org> > > > On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 12:24:03PM +0200, Mikael Djurfeldt wrote: > > I think we should trust what Mark says and not second guess him. > > Definitely. I think this should count for *all*. Second-guessing anyone > in this difficult situation can only add more difficulties on top. Agreed. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: Stepping back up as a co-maintainer 2019-10-17 10:24 ` Mikael Djurfeldt 2019-10-17 10:33 ` tomas @ 2019-10-17 10:52 ` zx spectrumgomas 2019-10-17 11:21 ` Neil Jerram 1 sibling, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread From: zx spectrumgomas @ 2019-10-17 10:52 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mikael; +Cc: Mark H Weaver, guile-user, guile-devel [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1463 bytes --] Let's hope so. But in Spain we have a proverb: "Blanco y en botella, leche". "White and bottle -> milk". Let's hope it doesn't come true. On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 12:24 PM Mikael Djurfeldt <mikael@djurfeldt.com> wrote: > I think we should trust what Mark says and not second guess him. > > Helping or being friend with someone is not among the worst crimes on my > list. > > Den tors 17 okt. 2019 11:28zx spectrumgomas <spectrumgomas@gmail.com> > skrev: > >> I'm a simple Guile user and I hope I'm wrong, but I think Mark H weaver >> are >> saying half-thruth here >> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guile-devel/2019-10/msg00021.html >> because he has a very close friendship witch Richard Stallmam: >> "I've known RMS for a long time. For a few years, I spent most of my time >> two doors down from him at the MIT AI lab. I was the FSF staff sysadmin >> for >> a while, and did sysadmin work on RMS's laptop. I was his preferred typist >> when he shattered his elbow and helped him replace his bandages, etc." >> http://logs.guix.gnu.org/guile/2014-08-09.log >> >> I think the joint statement >> https://guix.gnu.org/blog/2019/joint-statement-on-the-gnu-project/ is the >> true key factor of his return. >> >> On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 7:42 AM Mark H Weaver <mhw@netris.org> wrote: >> >> > Hello all, >> > >> > In light of recent events, I've decided to step back up as a >> > co-maintainer of GNU Guile. >> > >> > Thanks, >> > Mark >> > >> > >> > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2676 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: Stepping back up as a co-maintainer 2019-10-17 10:52 ` zx spectrumgomas @ 2019-10-17 11:21 ` Neil Jerram 2019-10-17 11:38 ` zx spectrumgomas 0 siblings, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread From: Neil Jerram @ 2019-10-17 11:21 UTC (permalink / raw) To: zx spectrumgomas; +Cc: Mark H Weaver, guile-user, guile-devel [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1742 bytes --] I'm afraid arguing by analogy or proverb rarely helps, because the analogy is usually inaccurate in some way. Also, what about Horchata? :-) On Thu, 17 Oct 2019 at 11:53, zx spectrumgomas <spectrumgomas@gmail.com> wrote: > Let's hope so. But in Spain we have a proverb: "Blanco y en botella, > leche". "White and bottle -> milk". Let's hope it doesn't come true. > > On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 12:24 PM Mikael Djurfeldt <mikael@djurfeldt.com> > wrote: > >> I think we should trust what Mark says and not second guess him. >> >> Helping or being friend with someone is not among the worst crimes on my >> list. >> >> Den tors 17 okt. 2019 11:28zx spectrumgomas <spectrumgomas@gmail.com> >> skrev: >> >>> I'm a simple Guile user and I hope I'm wrong, but I think Mark H weaver >>> are >>> saying half-thruth here >>> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guile-devel/2019-10/msg00021.html >>> because he has a very close friendship witch Richard Stallmam: >>> "I've known RMS for a long time. For a few years, I spent most of my time >>> two doors down from him at the MIT AI lab. I was the FSF staff sysadmin >>> for >>> a while, and did sysadmin work on RMS's laptop. I was his preferred >>> typist >>> when he shattered his elbow and helped him replace his bandages, etc." >>> http://logs.guix.gnu.org/guile/2014-08-09.log >>> >>> I think the joint statement >>> https://guix.gnu.org/blog/2019/joint-statement-on-the-gnu-project/ is >>> the >>> true key factor of his return. >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 7:42 AM Mark H Weaver <mhw@netris.org> wrote: >>> >>> > Hello all, >>> > >>> > In light of recent events, I've decided to step back up as a >>> > co-maintainer of GNU Guile. >>> > >>> > Thanks, >>> > Mark >>> > >>> > >>> >> [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 3227 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: Stepping back up as a co-maintainer 2019-10-17 11:21 ` Neil Jerram @ 2019-10-17 11:38 ` zx spectrumgomas 2019-10-18 3:36 ` zx spectrumgomas 0 siblings, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread From: zx spectrumgomas @ 2019-10-17 11:38 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Neil Jerram; +Cc: guile-user I was tempted to make that joke too :D . Yes, let's hope it's horchata. On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 1:22 PM Neil Jerram <neiljerram@gmail.com> wrote: > I'm afraid arguing by analogy or proverb rarely helps, because the analogy > is usually inaccurate in some way. > > Also, what about Horchata? :-) > > On Thu, 17 Oct 2019 at 11:53, zx spectrumgomas <spectrumgomas@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Let's hope so. But in Spain we have a proverb: "Blanco y en botella, >> leche". "White and bottle -> milk". Let's hope it doesn't come true. >> >> On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 12:24 PM Mikael Djurfeldt <mikael@djurfeldt.com> >> wrote: >> >>> I think we should trust what Mark says and not second guess him. >>> >>> Helping or being friend with someone is not among the worst crimes on my >>> list. >>> >>> Den tors 17 okt. 2019 11:28zx spectrumgomas <spectrumgomas@gmail.com> >>> skrev: >>> >>>> I'm a simple Guile user and I hope I'm wrong, but I think Mark H weaver >>>> are >>>> saying half-thruth here >>>> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guile-devel/2019-10/msg00021.html >>>> because he has a very close friendship witch Richard Stallmam: >>>> "I've known RMS for a long time. For a few years, I spent most of my >>>> time >>>> two doors down from him at the MIT AI lab. I was the FSF staff sysadmin >>>> for >>>> a while, and did sysadmin work on RMS's laptop. I was his preferred >>>> typist >>>> when he shattered his elbow and helped him replace his bandages, etc." >>>> http://logs.guix.gnu.org/guile/2014-08-09.log >>>> >>>> I think the joint statement >>>> https://guix.gnu.org/blog/2019/joint-statement-on-the-gnu-project/ is >>>> the >>>> true key factor of his return. >>>> >>>> On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 7:42 AM Mark H Weaver <mhw@netris.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> > Hello all, >>>> > >>>> > In light of recent events, I've decided to step back up as a >>>> > co-maintainer of GNU Guile. >>>> > >>>> > Thanks, >>>> > Mark >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >>> ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: Stepping back up as a co-maintainer 2019-10-17 11:38 ` zx spectrumgomas @ 2019-10-18 3:36 ` zx spectrumgomas 2019-10-18 7:25 ` Mark H Weaver 0 siblings, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread From: zx spectrumgomas @ 2019-10-18 3:36 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Neil Jerram; +Cc: guile-user It's milk https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guile-devel/2019-10/msg00031.html On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 1:38 PM zx spectrumgomas <spectrumgomas@gmail.com> wrote: > I was tempted to make that joke too :D . Yes, let's hope it's horchata. > > On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 1:22 PM Neil Jerram <neiljerram@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I'm afraid arguing by analogy or proverb rarely helps, because the >> analogy is usually inaccurate in some way. >> >> Also, what about Horchata? :-) >> >> On Thu, 17 Oct 2019 at 11:53, zx spectrumgomas <spectrumgomas@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Let's hope so. But in Spain we have a proverb: "Blanco y en botella, >>> leche". "White and bottle -> milk". Let's hope it doesn't come true. >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 12:24 PM Mikael Djurfeldt <mikael@djurfeldt.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I think we should trust what Mark says and not second guess him. >>>> >>>> Helping or being friend with someone is not among the worst crimes on >>>> my list. >>>> >>>> Den tors 17 okt. 2019 11:28zx spectrumgomas <spectrumgomas@gmail.com> >>>> skrev: >>>> >>>>> I'm a simple Guile user and I hope I'm wrong, but I think Mark H >>>>> weaver are >>>>> saying half-thruth here >>>>> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guile-devel/2019-10/msg00021.html >>>>> because he has a very close friendship witch Richard Stallmam: >>>>> "I've known RMS for a long time. For a few years, I spent most of my >>>>> time >>>>> two doors down from him at the MIT AI lab. I was the FSF staff >>>>> sysadmin for >>>>> a while, and did sysadmin work on RMS's laptop. I was his preferred >>>>> typist >>>>> when he shattered his elbow and helped him replace his bandages, etc." >>>>> http://logs.guix.gnu.org/guile/2014-08-09.log >>>>> >>>>> I think the joint statement >>>>> https://guix.gnu.org/blog/2019/joint-statement-on-the-gnu-project/ is >>>>> the >>>>> true key factor of his return. >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 7:42 AM Mark H Weaver <mhw@netris.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> > Hello all, >>>>> > >>>>> > In light of recent events, I've decided to step back up as a >>>>> > co-maintainer of GNU Guile. >>>>> > >>>>> > Thanks, >>>>> > Mark >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> >>>> ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: Stepping back up as a co-maintainer 2019-10-18 3:36 ` zx spectrumgomas @ 2019-10-18 7:25 ` Mark H Weaver 2019-10-18 8:36 ` zx spectrumgomas 0 siblings, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread From: Mark H Weaver @ 2019-10-18 7:25 UTC (permalink / raw) To: zx spectrumgomas; +Cc: guile-user zx spectrumgomas <spectrumgomas@gmail.com> writes: > It's milk > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guile-devel/2019-10/msg00031.html I'm sorry, but I don't understand what this means. If you are accusing me of something, can you state your case clearly, without reference to proverbs? Mark ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: Stepping back up as a co-maintainer 2019-10-18 7:25 ` Mark H Weaver @ 2019-10-18 8:36 ` zx spectrumgomas 2019-10-18 8:52 ` tomas 2019-10-18 9:26 ` Mark H Weaver 0 siblings, 2 replies; 20+ messages in thread From: zx spectrumgomas @ 2019-10-18 8:36 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Mark H Weaver; +Cc: guile-user Of your words: “RMS has not yet appointed me as a co-maintainer.” , the word “yet” I guess that means if he would have had his permission then you wouldn't have needed it of the current maintainers, as I also deduce from here: “Frankly, it should not be your decision to make.” https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guile-devel/2019-10/msg00021.html That is to say, you are apologizing because you have lacked that "yet", otherwise you believe that your behaviour had been correct. My opinion is that's not right, and more, as you said "in light of recent events" https://guix.gnu.org/blog/2019/joint-statement-on-the-gnu-project/ On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 9:26 AM Mark H Weaver <mhw@netris.org> wrote: > zx spectrumgomas <spectrumgomas@gmail.com> writes: > > It's milk > > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guile-devel/2019-10/msg00031.html > > I'm sorry, but I don't understand what this means. If you are accusing > me of something, can you state your case clearly, without reference to > proverbs? > > Mark > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: Stepping back up as a co-maintainer 2019-10-18 8:36 ` zx spectrumgomas @ 2019-10-18 8:52 ` tomas 2019-10-18 8:58 ` Ulrich Küttler 2019-10-18 9:26 ` Mark H Weaver 1 sibling, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread From: tomas @ 2019-10-18 8:52 UTC (permalink / raw) To: zx spectrumgomas; +Cc: guile-user [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 136 bytes --] On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 10:36:17AM +0200, zx spectrumgomas wrote: [...] You are not being helpful. Please, stop this. -- tomás [-- Attachment #2: Digital signature --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 198 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: Stepping back up as a co-maintainer 2019-10-18 8:52 ` tomas @ 2019-10-18 8:58 ` Ulrich Küttler 0 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread From: Ulrich Küttler @ 2019-10-18 8:58 UTC (permalink / raw) To: guile-user Hi guys, I am new to all of this and I can tell you, I love guile and the guile documentation. It is such a nice system. Incredible. Thanks for building and maintaining guile. I enjoy it immensely. Cheers Uli ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: Stepping back up as a co-maintainer 2019-10-18 8:36 ` zx spectrumgomas 2019-10-18 8:52 ` tomas @ 2019-10-18 9:26 ` Mark H Weaver 2019-10-18 9:51 ` Alex Sassmannshausen 2019-10-18 9:51 ` zx spectrumgomas 1 sibling, 2 replies; 20+ messages in thread From: Mark H Weaver @ 2019-10-18 9:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: zx spectrumgomas; +Cc: guile-user zx spectrumgomas <spectrumgomas@gmail.com> writes: > Of your words: “RMS has not yet appointed me as a co-maintainer.” , the > word “yet” I guess that means if he would have had his permission then you > wouldn't have needed it of the current maintainers, as I also deduce from > here: > “Frankly, it should not be your decision to make.” > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guile-devel/2019-10/msg00021.html Yes, and I stand by that statement. I made my case clearly in the message cited above. That said, I agree that it would have been improper for RMS to appoint me without first consulting the existing maintainers. In fact, discussions are currently ongoing with Andy and Ludovic to resolve the situation, and I'm hopeful that we'll reach a mutually acceptable resolution. Regarding my phrase "In light of recent events", which I cited as the reason for my decision to return, I should now be clear what I meant by that: GNU is far more fragile than I had supposed. It's like if your mother has a heart attack, and you suddenly realize that although you've always taken her presence in your life for granted, her mortality has now become real to you in a way that it wasn't before. I realize now that I took GNU's continued existence and integrity for granted, like a steady rock that I naively assumed would be there and stay strong regardless of whether I was a part of it or not. Now I see that it will depend on all of us who care about software freedom to do what we can to keep GNU strong. I'm not interested in dividing the Guile community. That would obviously be disastrous. I fully support Andy's work, and I recognize that he is the main driver in core Guile development. His continued participation is crucial. Still, we must guard against Guile becoming a one-man show if it can possibly be avoided. Keeping GNU strong means, among other things, resolving our differences peacefully and working together to make Guile better. That's what I intend to do. I hope that clarifies things. Thanks, Mark ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: Stepping back up as a co-maintainer 2019-10-18 9:26 ` Mark H Weaver @ 2019-10-18 9:51 ` Alex Sassmannshausen 2019-10-18 9:51 ` zx spectrumgomas 1 sibling, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread From: Alex Sassmannshausen @ 2019-10-18 9:51 UTC (permalink / raw) To: guile-user Hi Mark, Mark H Weaver <mhw@netris.org> writes: > zx spectrumgomas <spectrumgomas@gmail.com> writes: > >> Of your words: “RMS has not yet appointed me as a co-maintainer.” , the >> word “yet” I guess that means if he would have had his permission then you >> wouldn't have needed it of the current maintainers, as I also deduce from >> here: >> “Frankly, it should not be your decision to make.” >> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guile-devel/2019-10/msg00021.html > > Yes, and I stand by that statement. I made my case clearly in the > message cited above. > > That said, I agree that it would have been improper for RMS to appoint > me without first consulting the existing maintainers. In fact, > discussions are currently ongoing with Andy and Ludovic to resolve the > situation, and I'm hopeful that we'll reach a mutually acceptable > resolution. > > Regarding my phrase "In light of recent events", which I cited as the > reason for my decision to return, I should now be clear what I meant by > that: > > GNU is far more fragile than I had supposed. It's like if your mother > has a heart attack, and you suddenly realize that although you've always > taken her presence in your life for granted, her mortality has now > become real to you in a way that it wasn't before. > > I realize now that I took GNU's continued existence and integrity for > granted, like a steady rock that I naively assumed would be there and > stay strong regardless of whether I was a part of it or not. Now I see > that it will depend on all of us who care about software freedom to do > what we can to keep GNU strong. > > I'm not interested in dividing the Guile community. That would > obviously be disastrous. I fully support Andy's work, and I recognize > that he is the main driver in core Guile development. His continued > participation is crucial. Still, we must guard against Guile becoming a > one-man show if it can possibly be avoided. Keeping GNU strong means, > among other things, resolving our differences peacefully and working > together to make Guile better. That's what I intend to do. > > I hope that clarifies things. > > Thanks, > Mark I value your incredibly thoughtful comments, and elaboration of your concerns. I really hope you manage to come to an agreement that works for all of you. Best wishes, Alex ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: Stepping back up as a co-maintainer 2019-10-18 9:26 ` Mark H Weaver 2019-10-18 9:51 ` Alex Sassmannshausen @ 2019-10-18 9:51 ` zx spectrumgomas 2019-10-18 10:03 ` tomas 1 sibling, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread From: zx spectrumgomas @ 2019-10-18 9:51 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Mark H Weaver; +Cc: guile-user Yes, it clarifies things. I don't agree with you, but you have a noble heart. I hope you all come to an agreement.Thanks. On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 11:27 AM Mark H Weaver <mhw@netris.org> wrote: > zx spectrumgomas <spectrumgomas@gmail.com> writes: > > > Of your words: “RMS has not yet appointed me as a co-maintainer.” , the > > word “yet” I guess that means if he would have had his permission then > you > > wouldn't have needed it of the current maintainers, as I also deduce from > > here: > > “Frankly, it should not be your decision to make.” > > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guile-devel/2019-10/msg00021.html > > Yes, and I stand by that statement. I made my case clearly in the > message cited above. > > That said, I agree that it would have been improper for RMS to appoint > me without first consulting the existing maintainers. In fact, > discussions are currently ongoing with Andy and Ludovic to resolve the > situation, and I'm hopeful that we'll reach a mutually acceptable > resolution. > > Regarding my phrase "In light of recent events", which I cited as the > reason for my decision to return, I should now be clear what I meant by > that: > > GNU is far more fragile than I had supposed. It's like if your mother > has a heart attack, and you suddenly realize that although you've always > taken her presence in your life for granted, her mortality has now > become real to you in a way that it wasn't before. > > I realize now that I took GNU's continued existence and integrity for > granted, like a steady rock that I naively assumed would be there and > stay strong regardless of whether I was a part of it or not. Now I see > that it will depend on all of us who care about software freedom to do > what we can to keep GNU strong. > > I'm not interested in dividing the Guile community. That would > obviously be disastrous. I fully support Andy's work, and I recognize > that he is the main driver in core Guile development. His continued > participation is crucial. Still, we must guard against Guile becoming a > one-man show if it can possibly be avoided. Keeping GNU strong means, > among other things, resolving our differences peacefully and working > together to make Guile better. That's what I intend to do. > > I hope that clarifies things. > > Thanks, > Mark > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: Stepping back up as a co-maintainer 2019-10-18 9:51 ` zx spectrumgomas @ 2019-10-18 10:03 ` tomas 0 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread From: tomas @ 2019-10-18 10:03 UTC (permalink / raw) To: zx spectrumgomas; +Cc: guile-user [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 601 bytes --] On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 11:51:52AM +0200, zx spectrumgomas wrote: > Yes, it clarifies things. I don't agree with you, but you have a noble > heart. I hope you all come to an agreement.Thanks. Thanks :) and... agreed. I've been mostly a bystander here, but have perceived most of you (Andy, Mark, Mikael, all of you) as outstanding persons. Thank you all for that. We have a difficult situation now. Let's sort it out without throwing things at each other. Inuendo, and he-said-she-said don't help. Let's be clear, but at the same time let's be compassionate. Each of us deserves that. Cheers -- t [-- Attachment #2: Digital signature --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 198 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2019-10-18 10:03 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 20+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2019-10-16 5:41 Stepping back up as a co-maintainer Mark H Weaver 2019-10-16 8:30 ` Vladimir Zhbanov 2019-10-16 13:38 ` sirgazil 2019-10-16 18:28 ` Jean Louis 2019-10-17 9:27 ` zx spectrumgomas 2019-10-17 10:24 ` Mikael Djurfeldt 2019-10-17 10:33 ` tomas 2019-10-17 13:03 ` Eli Zaretskii 2019-10-17 10:52 ` zx spectrumgomas 2019-10-17 11:21 ` Neil Jerram 2019-10-17 11:38 ` zx spectrumgomas 2019-10-18 3:36 ` zx spectrumgomas 2019-10-18 7:25 ` Mark H Weaver 2019-10-18 8:36 ` zx spectrumgomas 2019-10-18 8:52 ` tomas 2019-10-18 8:58 ` Ulrich Küttler 2019-10-18 9:26 ` Mark H Weaver 2019-10-18 9:51 ` Alex Sassmannshausen 2019-10-18 9:51 ` zx spectrumgomas 2019-10-18 10:03 ` tomas
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