From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Keith Wright Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.user Subject: Re: guile history: your input needed! Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 17:46:10 -0500 Message-ID: <200811222246.mAMMkAeK003681@fcs13.keithdiane.us> References: <49dd78620811201634o5635f191w9de3ce26fc79ec71@mail.gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1227411834 10725 80.91.229.12 (23 Nov 2008 03:43:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 03:43:54 +0000 (UTC) To: guile-user@gnu.org Original-X-From: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Nov 23 04:44:57 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-user@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1L45u2-0002tU-09 for guile-user@m.gmane.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2008 04:44:54 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50399 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1L45ss-0002w6-Hm for guile-user@m.gmane.org; Sat, 22 Nov 2008 22:43:42 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1L45sn-0002vs-VE for guile-user@gnu.org; Sat, 22 Nov 2008 22:43:37 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1L45sl-0002vg-Li for guile-user@gnu.org; Sat, 22 Nov 2008 22:43:36 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=54923 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1L45sl-0002vd-IF for guile-user@gnu.org; Sat, 22 Nov 2008 22:43:35 -0500 Original-Received: from mail8.sea5.speakeasy.net ([69.17.117.10]:51794) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1L45sl-0000Jj-7r for guile-user@gnu.org; Sat, 22 Nov 2008 22:43:35 -0500 Original-Received: (qmail 17948 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2008 03:43:22 -0000 Original-Received: from dsl.keithdiane.us (HELO fcs12.keithdiane.us) ([66.92.74.188]) (envelope-sender ) by mail8.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 23 Nov 2008 03:43:21 -0000 Original-Received: from fcs13.keithdiane.us (fcs13 [192.168.1.112]) by fcs12.keithdiane.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15391237D53 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2008 22:43:38 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from fcs13.keithdiane.us (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fcs13.keithdiane.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id C581BAF4043 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2008 17:46:12 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: (from kwright@localhost) by fcs13.keithdiane.us (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id mAMMkAeK003681; Sat, 22 Nov 2008 17:46:10 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: fcs13.keithdiane.us: kwright set sender to kwright@keithdiane.us using -f In-reply-to: <49dd78620811201634o5635f191w9de3ce26fc79ec71@mail.gmail.com> (neiljerram@googlemail.com) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: guile-user@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: General Guile related discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.lisp.guile.user:6959 Archived-At: > From: "Neil Jerram" > Cc: guile-user > > 2008/11/20 Andy Wingo : > > Hey Guilers! > > > > Many (most?) of you have been at this guile thing for longer than > > I have, some of you from the very beginning. While doing some > > reorganizations to the manual to get the VM docs in [0], I > > realized that a big missing piece of our public narrative is our > > history. > > Apologies for not saying this when you raised this before, but to be > honest I'm not much bothered about Guile's history. How does it help > us (Guile developers and users) to add this to the manual? It can't hurt, can it? What _would_ help us? > (And I'm especially bored of hearing about the old tcl war yet again...) Whatever happened to tcl? > I hope this isn't too prickly; a better person would have said this > better, I'm sure. I suspect you actually have good reasons for > thinking that this narrative will help Guile's future - so could you > flesh those out a bit? Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it again and again repeatedly. Of course we want somebody who can actually write the truth; just rumor spreading is of little use. A record of what the goals were and why they changed can be helpful both for getting new people interested, and reminding veterans what they were fighting for. I am particularly interested in a short description of the gh_ interface. At one time it was billed as the new way to call C, which would be somewhat portable. Then it was deprecated and removed. What happened? Several other directions seem to have been pursued for a while and then abandonded. If nobody remembers why, then maybe someone will try the same thing again. Maybe that's a good thing, because a worthy goal remains to be accomplished. It won't be if it's forgotten. Maybe it's a bad thing because there were good reasons for the change, which should not be forgotten, either. I would want a history to document design decisions, not just gossip. Adding it to "the manual" does not seem to be important, but I think it would be good to write it down somewhere. Do you hate change logs? -- Keith