From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David =?UTF-8?B?U8OpdmVyaW4=?= Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.user Subject: Re: SOS: Simple Object System Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 10:58:35 -0300 Organization: Alto Air Services [http://www.altosw.be/aas/] Message-ID: <20080925105835.21c7a763@altosw.be> References: <874p45zanl.fsf@unknownlamer.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1222351155 32296 80.91.229.12 (25 Sep 2008 13:59:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 13:59:15 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Clinton Ebadi , guile-user@gnu.org To: "Maciek Godek" Original-X-From: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 25 16:00:12 2008 connect(): Connection refused Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-user@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KirO7-00029b-5I for guile-user@m.gmane.org; Thu, 25 Sep 2008 16:00:11 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41233 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KirN5-00067E-3t for guile-user@m.gmane.org; Thu, 25 Sep 2008 09:59:07 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KirN0-00066X-DR for guile-user@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Sep 2008 09:59:02 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KirMx-00065h-Ae for guile-user@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Sep 2008 09:59:00 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=49372 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KirMx-00065e-1v for guile-user@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Sep 2008 09:58:59 -0400 Original-Received: from maximusconfessor.all2all.org ([62.58.108.13]:43338 helo=smtp.all2all.net) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KirMw-0006y4-AF for guile-user@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Sep 2008 09:58:58 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost (unknown [192.168.0.2]) by smtp.all2all.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7831F9F169; Thu, 25 Sep 2008 15:58:56 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from smtp.all2all.net ([192.168.0.1]) by localhost (maximusconfessor.all2all.org [192.168.0.2]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aoKuOkT5A5J7; Thu, 25 Sep 2008 15:53:43 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [201.19.8.241]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.all2all.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DD079F10E; Thu, 25 Sep 2008 15:58:43 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.5.0 (GTK+ 2.12.11; i486-pc-linux-gnu) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: guile-user@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: General Guile related discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.lisp.guile.user:6818 Archived-At: Le Wed, 24 Sep 2008 23:04:51 +0200, "Maciek Godek" a =C3=A9crit : > ... > Note however that both these languages were invented to address > the particular needs of OOP and as such are well suited for that purpose > (or at least that's what the most people think. CLOS is rarely used > compared to C++ and Java -- can you explain why?) also because people in command sometimes have fear to take their responsability: here in Rio de Janeiro, 2 years ago, at PUC University, the scheme course has been canceled [for ever] because ... students didn't=20 want to be teached scheme anymore ?!? so, 18 years old kids now decide what they should be teached at university level ... and guess what they 'quasy all' want ... this leads to a very 'dangerous' standardization of computer technique skil= ls available at industrial level, lack of creativity [creativity is the rule, = not the execption, but people need to be motivated and teached to trust themsel= ves they are creative, and in our field, computer science, scheme is [also but = can not be reduced to this only off course] an excellent creativity trigger. in my original town in Belgium, Ouindoze offered [24 years ago] that the operating system course at university be based on their system [fortunatly = this was refused] then they would offer the material and licenses ... so that 'people would already be ready to work when quitting university' and would = not need training when they start working ... blabla cost effective for the society ... blabla blablabla it's like wine: big companies purchased small ones, private small wine producer, and converted the taste of the small producer to the standard tas= te, result: you here in the population, that the wine is good if it taste like = the others [and they now and since may years already change the taste chemicall= y] david