From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Todd Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.user Subject: Re: First look at Guile Std Library available Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 14:01:31 -0600 Sender: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <20040105200131.GA492@Richard-Todds-Computer.local> References: <87wu89q8pj.fsf@kanga.tapsellferrier.co.uk> <20040103221857.GA518@Richard-Todds-Computer.local> <20040104035022.GA742@Richard-Todds-Computer.local> <3FF88AD5.6010701@vzavenue.net> <87isjr1bkb.fsf@alice.rotty.yi.org> <3FF8EF71.6090802@vzavenue.net> Reply-To: Richard Todd NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1615230717==" X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1073335609 15831 80.91.224.253 (5 Jan 2004 20:46:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:46:49 +0000 (UTC) Cc: guile-user@gnu.org Original-X-From: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jan 05 21:46:41 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AdbcW-0003Za-00 for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2004 21:46:40 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AdcZT-00019a-98 for guile-user@m.gmane.org; Mon, 05 Jan 2004 16:47:35 -0500 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1AdcRq-0007Wh-Ie for guile-user@gnu.org; Mon, 05 Jan 2004 16:39:42 -0500 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1AdcRH-0007NP-Ih for guile-user@gnu.org; Mon, 05 Jan 2004 16:39:39 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.41.8] (helo=mx20.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 4.24) id 1AdcNr-0006Fm-2a for guile-user@gnu.org; Mon, 05 Jan 2004 16:35:35 -0500 Original-Received: from [66.171.156.251] (helo=Richard-Todds-Computer.local) by mx20.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AdavP-0004U9-2r for guile-user@gnu.org; Mon, 05 Jan 2004 15:02:07 -0500 Original-Received: by Richard-Todds-Computer.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 296F37B7A0; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 14:01:31 -0600 (CST) Original-To: Robert Uhl In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-BeenThere: guile-user@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list List-Id: General Guile related discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.lisp.guile.user:2534 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.guile.user:2534 --===============1615230717== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="8t9RHnE3ZwKMSgU+" Content-Disposition: inline --8t9RHnE3ZwKMSgU+ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jan 05, 2004 at 09:03:52AM -0700, Robert Uhl wrote: > Richard Todd writes: > >=20 > > Then, (I was hoping only once every few years), you have to say > > "Enough!" and break with the past. >=20 > I'm not certain about that--after all, libc has stayed pretty much the > same for decades. Heck, we still have gets(), for the truly perverse. The basis of the proposal was that you'd still have whatever schemely 'gets' we were living with, but it would stay in (std xxx). We would be encouraging the new development to move to (std2 xxx). The C language doesn't have a similar mechanism to make such a clean break. We're also presuming there's sufficient legacy code to save that it is worth saving. In a few years, when std2 may become desireable, we can look around. If there is still very little guile use, we may just say to ourselves, "why bother?" and make the incompatible cleanups. At the other end of the spectrum, where we have grown to C-like popularity, then we will certainly care a lot more about compatibility than fixing a few warts. I'm hoping it ends up in-between, where we care enough to leave=20 (std ...) behind. Maybe indefinitely. Maybe for a couple years, so people can upgrade old code. Who knows? I don't want to argue about a hypothetical library cleanup for a library that doesn't exist yet. I would like to put some effort into producing that library. (also, lets look at our peers. Python (to take one example) has changed its libraries over time, and I hear very few complaints. It certainly hasn't hurt its popularity) Richard Todd --8t9RHnE3ZwKMSgU+ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (Darwin) iD8DBQE/+cKba9lhNGIqsRIRAk5JAKCyxh9wpMasxMPUIvQ/hjk6v+DOkwCgqweM k21NQchN8wwL9EAjKloWcTI= =TY8C -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --8t9RHnE3ZwKMSgU+-- --===============1615230717== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Guile-user mailing list Guile-user@gnu.org http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/guile-user --===============1615230717==--