Scheme translator

Scheme translator

[Daniel Silva]

Hello everyone,

Has the Guile community considered a Python to Scheme translator/compiler?
I'm very interested in such a project and hope others are too.


Regards,
Daniel Silva


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Re: Scheme translator

[Neil Jerram]

>>>>> "Daniel" == Daniel Silva <dsilva@ccs.neu.edu> writes:

    Daniel> Hello everyone,
    Daniel> Has the Guile community considered a Python to Scheme translator/compiler?
    Daniel> I'm very interested in such a project and hope others are too.

Thomas Bushnell (of Hurd fame) was working on one, but AFAIK hasn't
shared any of the result yet.

        Neil



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Re: Scheme translator

[Dale P. Smith]

Neil Jerram wrote:
>>>>>>"Daniel" == Daniel Silva <dsilva@ccs.neu.edu> writes:
> 
> 
>     Daniel> Hello everyone,
>     Daniel> Has the Guile community considered a Python to Scheme translator/compiler?
>     Daniel> I'm very interested in such a project and hope others are too.
> 
> Thomas Bushnell (of Hurd fame) was working on one, but AFAIK hasn't
> shared any of the result yet.
> 
>         Neil

I think someone named "Lalo" was working on one years ago too.  His 
.signature had something like "Lalo of deBorg, you will be assimilated" 
or something similar.

-Dale

-- 
Dale P. Smith
dsmith at actron dot com



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Re: Scheme translator

[Daniel Silva]

Hello again,

It looks like Thomas Bushnell and Lalo Martins have both been interested
in Python compilers but a few years ago, and there is no information on
either project.  Would any of you be interested in working on a Python to
Scheme compiler?

Also, your reply and Neil's didn't show up in the guile-user archive at
http://mail.gnu.org/archive/html/guile-user/2003-08/threads.html, though I
see CC entries for guile-user@gnu.org.  Am I looking at the wrong web
page?

-- Daniel


On Tue, 12 Aug 2003, Dale P. Smith wrote:

> Neil Jerram wrote:
> >>>>>>"Daniel" == Daniel Silva <dsilva@ccs.neu.edu> writes:
> >
> >
> >     Daniel> Hello everyone,
> >     Daniel> Has the Guile community considered a Python to Scheme translator/compiler?
> >     Daniel> I'm very interested in such a project and hope others are too.
> >
> > Thomas Bushnell (of Hurd fame) was working on one, but AFAIK hasn't
> > shared any of the result yet.
> >
> >         Neil
>
> I think someone named "Lalo" was working on one years ago too.  His
> .signature had something like "Lalo of deBorg, you will be assimilated"
> or something similar.
>
> -Dale
>
> --
> Dale P. Smith
> dsmith at actron dot com
>


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Re: Scheme translator

[Neil Jerram]

>>>>> "Daniel" == Daniel Silva <dsilva@ccs.neu.edu> writes:

    Daniel> Would any of you be interested in working on a Python to
    Daniel> Scheme compiler?

No thanks - I need to finish other things first, and they're already
at a snail's pace :-(

    Daniel> Also, your reply and Neil's didn't show up in the
    Daniel> guile-user archive at
    Daniel> http://mail.gnu.org/archive/html/guile-user/2003-08/threads.html,
    Daniel> though I see CC entries for guile-user@gnu.org.  Am I
    Daniel> looking at the wrong web page?

Odd.  AFAIK that is the correct web page.

        Neil



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Re: Scheme translator

[Joshua Judson Rosen]

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On Tue, Aug 12, 2003 at 07:42:40AM +0100, Neil Jerram wrote:
> >>>>> "Daniel" == Daniel Silva <dsilva@ccs.neu.edu> writes:
> 
>     Daniel> Hello everyone,
>     Daniel> Has the Guile community considered a Python to Scheme translator/compiler?
>     Daniel> I'm very interested in such a project and hope others are too.
> 
> Thomas Bushnell (of Hurd fame) was working on one, but AFAIK hasn't
> shared any of the result yet.

Actually, he's got a project set-up on Savannah:

          http://savannah.gnu.org/projects/gpc

There is some code in CVS.

I'm not sure what his intent is with this--if he's listening, I'd love
to hear it. I'd also love to hear what Daniel's is.

The reasons that I've imagined for writing a `Python-to-Guile
translator' are:

        * To convert Python's libraries for use with/from Guile        

        * To use Guile's libraries from Python (Sam Rushing was
          planning to do this with Lunacy, at some point--I think that
          his main reason was that he saw it as the easiest path to a
          Python with call/cc)

        * Adding a Python-like extension-language to embedded-Guile
          applications.

I guess it's really only two fundamental categories:

        * A platform for new Python code (like, say, Jython)

        * Compatibilty with existing Python code

And they seem very different....

-- 
"Computing is based on utility, performance, efficiency, and cleverness.
 Where are beauty, compassion, humanity, morality,
 the human spirit, and creativity?" --Richard Gabriel's Fayerabend Invitation

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Re: Scheme translator

[Dale P. Smith]

Daniel Silva wrote:
> Hello again,
> 
> It looks like Thomas Bushnell and Lalo Martins have both been interested
> in Python compilers but a few years ago, and there is no information on
> either project.  Would any of you be interested in working on a Python to
> Scheme compiler?

Not I.  While I'm sure that would provide many many hours of 
entertainment, I dont seem to have any extra lying around anywhere.

I dunno. I think it would be great to have python->guile 
translator/compiler, but I think it would be better to invest that time 
and energy into a guile->C or guile->asm compiler.

> Also, your reply and Neil's didn't show up in the guile-user archive at
> http://mail.gnu.org/archive/html/guile-user/2003-08/threads.html, though I
> see CC entries for guile-user@gnu.org.  Am I looking at the wrong web
> page?

They are there.  There is probably some delay until a cron job runs.
http://mail.gnu.org/archive/html/guile-user/2003-08/msg00044.html
http://mail.gnu.org/archive/html/guile-user/2003-08/msg00045.html

-Dale

-- 
Dale P. Smith
dsmith at actron dot com



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Re: Scheme translator

[Nic]

"Dale P. Smith" <dsmith@altustech.com> writes:

> Daniel Silva wrote:
> > Hello again,
> > 
> > It looks like Thomas Bushnell and Lalo Martins have both been interested
> > in Python compilers but a few years ago, and there is no information on
> > either project.  Would any of you be interested in working on a Python to
> > Scheme compiler?
> 
> Not I.  While I'm sure that would provide many many hours of 
> entertainment, I dont seem to have any extra lying around anywhere.
> 
> I dunno. I think it would be great to have python->guile 
> translator/compiler, but I think it would be better to invest that time 
> and energy into a guile->C or guile->asm compiler.

Or to put python on top of guile much in the way that jython sits on
top of java.

If I had a spare month I'd do that.

But I haven't  /8-<



Nic



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Re: Scheme translator

[Thamer Al-Harbash]

On Wed, 13 Aug 2003, Dale P. Smith wrote:

> I dunno. I think it would be great to have python->guile
> translator/compiler, but I think it would be better to invest that time
> and energy into a guile->C or guile->asm compiler.

Wasn't it one of the original plans to have "everything" to guile
compilers so that guile could be the one true extension library?

If such a project gets started, I'd be willing to contribute to
it as best I could. Unfortunately it's beyond the scope of my
pain receptors and my current skill set to design and write the
initial code base. Still something worth doing which I would
support.

-- 
Thamer Al-Harbash
GPG Key fingerprint: D7F3 1E3B F329 8DD5 FAE3  03B1 A663 E359 D686 AA1F
   "to understand recursion first one must understand recursion"


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Re: Scheme translator

[Thien-Thi Nguyen]

   From: Thamer Al-Harbash <tmh@whitefang.com>
   Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 15:15:14 -0400 (EDT)

   Wasn't it one of the original plans to have "everything" to guile
   compilers so that guile could be the one true extension library?

the first step to compiling everything is to be able to read anything.
this is why i'm concentrating (if you can use such a word as applied
over many years time span ;-) on bringing parsing into the fold for
guile 1.4.2.

thi


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Re: Scheme translator

[Daniel Silva]

On Tue, 12 Aug 2003, Joshua Judson Rosen wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 12, 2003 at 07:42:40AM +0100, Neil Jerram wrote:
> > Thomas Bushnell (of Hurd fame) was working on one, but AFAIK hasn't
> > shared any of the result yet.
>
> Actually, he's got a project set-up on Savannah:
>           http://savannah.gnu.org/projects/gpc
> There is some code in CVS.
>
> I'm not sure what his intent is with this--if he's listening, I'd love
> to hear it. I'd also love to hear what Daniel's is.
>

His development was paid, and the project stopped when his time and
funding did too.  My intent is to use Scheme tools to develop Python
programs, and to use Python libraries in a Scheme environment.

Thamer Al-Harbash wrote:
> Wasn't it one of the original plans to have "everything" to guile
> compilers so that guile could be the one true extension library?

> If such a project gets started, I'd be willing to contribute to
> it as best I could. Unfortunately it's beyond the scope of my
> pain receptors and my current skill set to design and write the
> initial code base. Still something worth doing which I would
> support.

I've already started on a project to compile Python into PLT Scheme.  It
should not be so hard to port it to R5RS or PLT+Guile.

See http://spyweb.hopto.org for the current status.

Thien-Thi Nguyen wrote:
> the first step to compiling everything is to be able to read anything.
> this is why i'm concentrating (if you can use such a word as applied
> over many years time span ;-) on bringing parsing into the fold for
> guile 1.4.2.

Scott Owens at Utah University wrote the front-end for the Python to PLT
Scheme compiler using his parser generator library.  Again, I don't think
the dependencies on PLT-specific Scheme are too deep.

I hope we can collaborate.

Regards,
Daniel Silva


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Re: Scheme translator

[Thien-Thi Nguyen]

   From: Daniel Silva <dsilva@ccs.neu.edu>
   Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 01:04:32 -0400 (EDT)

   Scott Owens at Utah University wrote the front-end for the Python to
   PLT Scheme compiler using his parser generator library.  Again, I
   don't think the dependencies on PLT-specific Scheme are too deep.

   I hope we can collaborate.

do you still have interest in this initiative?

thi


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Re: Scheme translator

[Daniel Pinto de Mello e Silva]

On Sun, 2004-01-11 at 08:21, Thien-Thi Nguyen wrote:
>    From: Daniel Silva <dsilva@ccs.neu.edu>
>    Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 01:04:32 -0400 (EDT)
> 
>    Scott Owens at Utah University wrote the front-end for the Python to
>    PLT Scheme compiler using his parser generator library.  Again, I
>    don't think the dependencies on PLT-specific Scheme are too deep.
> 
>    I hope we can collaborate.
> 
> do you still have interest in this initiative?
> 

Yes, I am still working on the translator.  Right now I am focusing on
the foreign-function interface to C and making sure that it's
source-compatible with CPython's.

You might want to look at Dorai Sitaram's scmxlate to aid in porting:

http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/dorai/scmxlate/scmxlate.html

Daniel

> thi



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Re: Scheme translator

[Thien-Thi Nguyen]

   From: Daniel Pinto de Mello e Silva <dsilva@ccs.neu.edu>
   Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 13:15:55 -0500

   You might want to look at Dorai Sitaram's scmxlate to aid in porting:

   http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/dorai/scmxlate/scmxlate.html

thanks for the link.  interesting.

i see from the text of the scheme workshop 2003 slides relating to
scmxlate that both SLIB and the SRFIs can potentially make scmxlate
"obsolete".  are you currently using scmxlate for the translator?

thi


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Re: Scheme translator

[Daniel Pinto de Mello e Silva]

On Sat, 2004-01-24 at 16:48, Thien-Thi Nguyen wrote:
>    From: Daniel Pinto de Mello e Silva <dsilva@ccs.neu.edu>
>    Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 13:15:55 -0500
> 
>    You might want to look at Dorai Sitaram's scmxlate to aid in porting:
> 
>    http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/dorai/scmxlate/scmxlate.html
> 
> thanks for the link.  interesting.
> 
> i see from the text of the scheme workshop 2003 slides relating to
> scmxlate that both SLIB and the SRFIs can potentially make scmxlate
> "obsolete".  are you currently using scmxlate for the translator?
> 

Well, it's definitely easier to port programs that use SLIB and the
SRFIs, but as soon as you use a dialect-specific feature (e.g, I use
mzscheme's syntax-objects, parameterize, and class system) then you have
to translate that to other dialects.

I haven't used scmxlate yet as I focused mainly on getting the
translator to work in PLT Scheme first.

Daniel



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