Guile and the Free Software Directory

Guile and the Free Software Directory

[Marius Vollmer]

Hi,

we currently maintain (or used to maintain) a list of Guile related
code and projects on our web site at

  http://www.gnu.org/software/guile/gnu-guile-projects.html.

I think it would make sense to move most of the entries there into the
Free Software Directory

  http://www.gnu.org/directory/

What do you all think about this?

(The task of actually moving the entries can probably not be fully
automated, so it would be great if we can find some people to help
with it.)


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Re: Guile and the Free Software Directory

[Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>]

Marius Vollmer <marius.vollmer@uni-dortmund.de> writes:
> 
> we currently maintain (or used to maintain) a list of Guile related
> code and projects on our web site at
> 
>   http://www.gnu.org/software/guile/gnu-guile-projects.html.
> 
> I think it would make sense to move most of the entries there into the
> Free Software Directory
> 
>   http://www.gnu.org/directory/
> 
> What do you all think about this?

It's my opinion that they should not be included without the authors'
permission.  There are, after all, folks who dislike the FSF (not I, but
they do exist); they may be willing to have mention made on guile's page
but not on the FSF's.  Also, I would retain links to the project pages
from the guile site, in order to maintain the ability for folks to see
what projects are using it.

Speaking as an author of a guile-related project (travlib & travtrack),
I'd love to have an entry in the FSD; I've just not had the time to get
around to it.  I'd also love to know if there's an easy way to migrate
from SourceForge to savannah--probably not.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Government does not cause affluence.  Citizens of totalitarian countries
have plenty of government and nothing of anything else. --P. J. O'Rourke


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Re: Guile and the Free Software Directory

[rm]

On Mon, Mar 03, 2003 at 02:12:32PM +0100, Marius Vollmer wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> we currently maintain (or used to maintain) a list of Guile related
> code and projects on our web site at
> 
>   http://www.gnu.org/software/guile/gnu-guile-projects.html.
> 
> I think it would make sense to move most of the entries there into the
> Free Software Directory
> 
>   http://www.gnu.org/directory/
> 
> What do you all think about this?

What do you mean by "move"? While think it migh be a nice idea for
the projects to also show up on the FSD site (but the projects
maintainer should decide) i think there really should be a well-
maintained list of Guile-related software on the Guile website 
as well. This is the place people will look at to see the current
state of Guile. I'd hate to have to dig through the FSD to find out
about some Guile bindings to a library (not only is the UI suboptimal,
there's no way to apply a filter to only see 'Guile projects').

What, actually, _is_ the problem with the current setup? From Thi's
comment i grok it's rather a political than a technical, or did i 
get something wrong? 

> (The task of actually moving the entries can probably not be fully
> automated, so it would be great if we can find some people to help
> with it.)

I'm happy to help keeping the current site up to date ...


  Ralf Mattes
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Guile-user mailing list
> Guile-user@gnu.org
> http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/guile-user


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Re: Guile and the Free Software Directory

[Thien-Thi Nguyen]

   From: rm@fabula.de
   Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 16:37:45 +0100

   What, actually, _is_ the problem with the current setup?

for GNU purity reasons (that i happen to agree w/), the gnu.org page is
a subset of:

  http://www.glug.org/projects/list.html

that contains only free software.  the pages are generated from a
database and the maintenance/generation software is available here:

  http://www.glug.org/people/ttn/software/guile-projects/

the database is not available, as it contains passwords (for light
security only).  the database administrator typically updates the
database based on email inputs whose format is specified here:

  http://www.glug.org/projects/protocol.txt

the gnu.org-specific page is additionally checked into cvs on a gnu.org
machine (access to which probably requires a gnu.org account).  the file
README.MAINTAINERS in the cvs module contains further process notes.

this system actually functions apart from the previously alluded
historical censorship acts, and in theory can continue independently so
long as the two cvs repos are administered separately.  in practice, i
find this kind of "collaboration" to be suboptimal and have found other
things to do while waiting for guile project management reform and/or
maturation.

thi


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Re: Guile and the Free Software Directory

[Marius Vollmer]

rm@fabula.de writes:

> > I think it would make sense to move most of the entries there into the
> > Free Software Directory
> > 
> >   http://www.gnu.org/directory/
> > 
> > What do you all think about this?
> 
> What do you mean by "move"?

We would make sure for each entry in our database, there is a
corresponding entry in the Free Software Directory.  The entry would
be deleted from our database.  Hopefully our databse is empty after
that and can be 'decommissioned'.

> While think it migh be a nice idea for the projects to also show up
> on the FSD site (but the projects maintainer should decide) i think
> there really should be a well- maintained list of Guile-related
> software on the Guile website as well.

I would like to avoid the double maintainance.  We don't need to
duplicate something that is already there and useful.  When the FSD
has shortcomings, we should try to improve the FSD itself instead of
rejecting it.

> This is the place people will look at to see the current state of
> Guile. I'd hate to have to dig through the FSD to find out about
> some Guile bindings to a library

We can link to the FSD in general and to a pre-frabricated query so
that only Guile relevant entries are listed.

> (not only is the UI suboptimal, there's no way to apply a filter to
> only see 'Guile projects').

We might make a new category (with subcategories) and put the Guile
related packages in it.

> What, actually, _is_ the problem with the current setup? From Thi's
> comment i grok it's rather a political than a technical, or did i 
> get something wrong? 

Technically, I think it is wrong to maintain a projects database when
there is already one that can do the job.  There is nothing
politically wrong about our current database, it is only unfortunate
that the person willing to maintain it can not have write access to
the repository (since I decided back then that I didn't trust him
enough and I haven't reconsidered yet).

> > (The task of actually moving the entries can probably not be fully
> > automated, so it would be great if we can find some people to help
> > with it.)
> 
> I'm happy to help keeping the current site up to date ...

Would you also be willing to help find an arrangement where we use the
FSD as our 'backend'?


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Re: Guile and the Free Software Directory

[rm]

On Mon, Mar 03, 2003 at 07:32:36PM +0100, Marius Vollmer wrote:
> 
> We would make sure for each entry in our database, there is a
> corresponding entry in the Free Software Directory.  The entry would
> be deleted from our database.  Hopefully our databse is empty after
> that and can be 'decommissioned'.
> 
> > While think it migh be a nice idea for the projects to also show up
> > on the FSD site (but the projects maintainer should decide) i think
> > there really should be a well- maintained list of Guile-related
> > software on the Guile website as well.
> 
> I would like to avoid the double maintainance.  We don't need to
> duplicate something that is already there and useful.  When the FSD
> has shortcomings, we should try to improve the FSD itself instead of
> rejecting it.

Ok, double maintainance _is_ a problem (but that could be left to
a script ;-)

> > This is the place people will look at to see the current state of
> > Guile. I'd hate to have to dig through the FSD to find out about
> > some Guile bindings to a library
> 
> We can link to the FSD in general and to a pre-frabricated query so
> that only Guile relevant entries are listed.

Sound reasonable ...

> > (not only is the UI suboptimal, there's no way to apply a filter to
> > only see 'Guile projects').
> 
> We might make a new category (with subcategories) and put the Guile
> related packages in it.

If this is a possibility i'd say to go for it. 

> > What, actually, _is_ the problem with the current setup? From Thi's
> > comment i grok it's rather a political than a technical, or did i 
> > get something wrong? 
> 
> Technically, I think it is wrong to maintain a projects database when
> there is already one that can do the job.  There is nothing
> politically wrong about our current database, it is only unfortunate
> that the person willing to maintain it can not have write access to
> the repository (since I decided back then that I didn't trust him
> enough and I haven't reconsidered yet).

I see the technical reasons. As for the current maintainer: i think
this situation needs to be resolved. The current setup only seems to
create problems and frustration -- a maintainer without write access
has a hard time doing his job ...

> > > (The task of actually moving the entries can probably not be fully
> > > automated, so it would be great if we can find some people to help
> > > with it.)
> > 
> > I'm happy to help keeping the current site up to date ...
> 
> Would you also be willing to help find an arrangement where we use the
> FSD as our 'backend'?

Shure.

 Ralf Mattes


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Re: Guile and the Free Software Directory

[Marius Vollmer]

ruhl@4dv.net (Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>) writes:

> > I think it would make sense to move most of the entries there into the
> > Free Software Directory
> > 
> >   http://www.gnu.org/directory/
> > 
> > What do you all think about this?
> 
> It's my opinion that they should not be included without the authors'
> permission.

Yes, definitely.

-- 
GPG: D5D4E405 - 2F9B BCCC 8527 692A 04E3  331E FAF8 226A D5D4 E405


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