From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Nala Ginrut Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.user,gmane.os.hurd.l4 Subject: Re: GNU Hurd on $scheme (was: [ANN] the Guile 100 Programs Project) Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2013 11:51:43 +0800 Organization: HFG Message-ID: <1359777103.3021.72.camel@Renee-desktop.suse> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1359777124 24986 80.91.229.3 (2 Feb 2013 03:52:04 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 03:52:04 +0000 (UTC) Cc: l4-hurd@gnu.org, guile-user@gnu.org To: Daniel Hartwig Original-X-From: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Feb 02 04:52:22 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-user@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1U1U9I-0003Yb-Ll for guile-user@m.gmane.org; Sat, 02 Feb 2013 04:52:16 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41228 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U1U90-0006LP-HT for guile-user@m.gmane.org; Fri, 01 Feb 2013 22:51:58 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:39464) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U1U8v-0006LF-RT for guile-user@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Feb 2013 22:51:54 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U1U8u-0003NT-L1 for guile-user@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Feb 2013 22:51:53 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-pb0-f45.google.com ([209.85.160.45]:61270) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U1U8s-0003N1-4P; Fri, 01 Feb 2013 22:51:50 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-pb0-f45.google.com with SMTP id rq13so2418969pbb.32 for ; Fri, 01 Feb 2013 19:51:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:date:in-reply-to :references:organization:content-type:x-mailer:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Qy/bHrOdEqCNS5N9CxkzT7lOgsk+6Lt2+kjmVoUXsdM=; b=VqKhEmYkeeYEy9NCqFLFuUwu9RRqksy0OdpYfvOYhTg4kZctuXvdOT4gWdErWZ9uuZ 7/M7zzpK30ZL6NksYBuhSDB491CbycULLmmRzuJIWNwRXNNNEVe3Sov/effDJvXT0BVr KTloNGo3jZMpJ70Ogy92wVgNrNVEeqX+gzRhKUVi9peL5/C8D5dMeukPmCFn+lT22c5E 0IRNiSvXzTogd1CzhmqUcLDHf2yiuabH5oNq49cSYImdezuVFSe4bgr5pE8SdXLk5TJv ztspfVCwrI2hZfGQy2eo9NfYxpI2GC3Ghh5xW1Qo5LSJzc4HRlPi2gmReIn1YqfcXxj7 aA5A== X-Received: by 10.68.235.2 with SMTP id ui2mr37900598pbc.163.1359777109085; Fri, 01 Feb 2013 19:51:49 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from [10.100.36.183] (li335-136.members.linode.com. [96.126.102.136]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ba3sm10376311pbd.29.2013.02.01.19.51.46 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 01 Feb 2013 19:51:48 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Evolution 3.4.4 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 209.85.160.45 X-BeenThere: guile-user@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: General Guile related discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.lisp.guile.user:9991 gmane.os.hurd.l4:6022 Archived-At: On Sat, 2013-02-02 at 10:49 +0800, Daniel Hartwig wrote: > [Hello l4-hurd, I see you have been quiet lately.] > > On 2 February 2013 01:28, Nala Ginrut wrote: > > On Fri, 2013-02-01 at 16:40 +0000, Ian Price wrote: > >> Heh, reimplementing coreutils in Scheme has been a plan of mine for a > >> while, as part of justifying my Iteratees library, but that has taken a > >> sideline to newer and shinier projects. > >> > > > > Maybe another new project, say, rewrite GNU with Guile, include part of > > HURD, heh? I even get the name, GoG, GNU on Guile. ;-P > > > > Something I have thought about for some time. Next on the TODO list :-) > > > There is a paper by Rees, _A Security Kernel Based on the > Lambda-Calculus_. It discusses a Lisp dialect, Scheme¯, similar to > Scheme but with certain operations removed; in there place are some > logical guarantees with implications for security for any code written > in the dialect. This is used to construct a security kernel, W7, > which becomes the basis for Scheme48 (a language supporting R5RS). > > I don't want to get in to the details of the paper, I think that many > on this list will be familiar with it. Suffice to say that the > security kernel provides concepts that closely map to a capability > model. Also, verified processes can run within the same machine > process and I wonder if this has implications for the communication > overhead that microkernel systems tend to get labelled with. In > theory the security kernel, core services, and any Scheme (and other) > language programs should be able to reside in the same process without > having to implement access restrictions beyond those implicit in the > language. > > After bootstrapping my current pet project, I intend to explore the > ideas in this paper as they relate to the Hurd. As I am quite fond of > Guile I plan to proceed roughly as follows: > - port Scheme¯ to the Guile language stack; > - get W7 or something similar running on this; > - implement required Hurd interfaces; > - port some of the current Hurd servers and userland to the Scheme in > this stack; > - … > - profit! > > Maybe bypassing the first stages and use Scheme48 instead. > > I believe having some sort of system running in Scheme would be very > useful for exploring design and architectural issues, regardless of > whether it is a practical or fast performing implementation. > > Anyone interested in collaborating on such a project, or have comments > regarding the paper and the implications for the Hurd? Nala, you > sound interested, and we will certainly benefit from some of the > userland being ported as part of the Guile 100 Programs Project. > Yes, I'm definitely interested on it. Several years ago, I decided to become an OS hacker and I want to research OS design, but then I became a language/compiler hacker after I read SICP, I don't know how it is... Actually, I planed to implement MiG with Guile, but I delayed that since I need to read many papers about Hurd which is worthy for the hack. Now this kind of OS, I can't find a good entrance for it, maybe this GNU Hurd on $scheme project is a good way to start. Anyway, count me in! ;-P > Regards