From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: adriano Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.user Subject: Re: Proposal: Deep Dive into the Guile Docs & Makeover Proposal Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2022 18:35:45 +0100 Message-ID: <0614c9884e82d429449815d902440035216d26b5.camel@riseup.net> References: <871r01sa4a.fsf@nonconstructivism.com> <87bkz27txj.fsf@laura> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="5870"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: guix-days@gnu.org, guile-user , guix-user@gnu.org To: Olivier Dion , Neil Jerram , Blake Shaw Original-X-From: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Feb 19 18:36:55 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-user@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nLTfC-0001IR-7q for guile-user@m.gmane-mx.org; 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Sat, 19 Feb 2022 09:35:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=riseup.net; s=squak; t=1645292152; bh=uGfS3lVGx9O76FrWRGuJs8WMtt0FgtqNXQABXXER7II=; h=Subject:From:To:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=eDTpWp5+M1/XbpRrmFBIL8vBg440zac4/AI1U8SQj5/PNDsICzPuntQq2dTX+szPx kZaBQE3oyvq8WyJ9s4e0zNaV936U8/wMgxTU1+yrklPvFv9LDLg+LMzZGyaoOANeyO z4G4YspSR7VxMEw/r1By/Ve8naj36RR3klCUnc5w= X-Riseup-User-ID: B55ADF1E23A56723296F412BC1186EB8EA0B1777CEA700E76DBB9C7F00174D88 Original-Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fews1.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4K1G1f5FPxz5vMh; Sat, 19 Feb 2022 09:35:50 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87bkz27txj.fsf@laura> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=198.252.153.129; envelope-from=randomlooser@riseup.net; helo=mx1.riseup.net X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guile-user@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: General Guile related discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "guile-user" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.lisp.guile.user:18108 Archived-At: Il giorno sab, 19/02/2022 alle 10.33 -0500, Olivier Dion via General Guile related discussions ha scritto: > On Sat, 19 Feb 2022, Neil Jerram wrote: > > > Personally, I am now a big fan of Scheme-centric + FFI, as it means > > always writing Scheme and never having to hack C code.  If everyone > > agreed on that, we could discard all the C-centric parts of the > > manual, and focus the rest on a clearer use case.  But I very much > > doubt that there is clear agreement on that.  In particular, the > > C-centric usage is really Guile's original reason for existing: to > > act > > as a universal extension language for lots of GNU programs that > > already exist. > > All projects being different, I don't think this is possible.  For > example, I've added Guile bindings for Jami, which is written in C++. > FFI does not have support -- as far as I know -- for C++ std::string, > std::vector, std::map.  So it's a necessary to use more than > the FFI module. > > I should add that I first started using Guile because of its easy > integration with the C runtime and clear documentation on how to > interlop it.  If it was not for that, I would probably have dismiss > Guile and select Lua instead. > > TLDR: I don't think we should discard anything that is C-centric in > the > manual. > Probably there should be 2 distinct manuals One for each (macro) use case The cognitive overload for someone wanting to just get their feet wet and then maybe grow their thing organically is frankly unfair But even by keeping a single manual, been watching Blake's video for a while now, he offers some suggestions about how to lessen such cognitive overload on the poor newcomer