i18n, gettext support?

i18n, gettext support?

[Jan Nieuwenhuizen]

Hi,

What's the preferred way to internationalise GUILE code?

I found a short two year old thread on guile-user, that stops short
with a patch that fails.

For the upcoming LilyPond 3.0, we have moved even more functionality
from C++ to guile, and along with this messages that are exposed to
the user.  These need to be ornamented and translated.

I'm wondering whether we should duplicate a list of all messages in C
code for xgettext to find, and do all printing of user messages
through a C gettext wrapper?

Greetings,
Jan.

-- 
Jan Nieuwenhuizen <janneke@gnu.org> | GNU LilyPond - The music typesetter
http://www.xs4all.nl/~jantien       | http://www.lilypond.org


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Re: i18n, gettext support?

[Rob Browning]

Jan Nieuwenhuizen <janneke@gnu.org> writes:

> What's the preferred way to internationalise GUILE code?

I don't think there is one yet.

> I'm wondering whether we should duplicate a list of all messages in C
> code for xgettext to find, and do all printing of user messages
> through a C gettext wrapper?

You might want to take a look at gnucash.  I forget how it was done
there, but it *was* done.  My recollection is that we had something
like (_ foo) on the scheme side and it handled interfacing with
gettext, but I didn't work on that myself.

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Re: i18n, gettext support?

[Kevin Ryde]

Rob Browning <rlb@defaultvalue.org> writes:
>
> something like (_ foo) on the scheme side

Yes, xgettext recognises that, I tinkered with it for some messages to
be shown by gtk.

gtk uses utf8, and it worked fine to translate and pass strings with
those bytes.  But without guile properly understanding multi-byte
strings it's a bit limited.

An interface to the gettext calls would be good now for 8-bit locales,
even if something sophisticated for multibyte has to wait.


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Re: i18n, gettext support?

[Jan Nieuwenhuizen]

Kevin Ryde writes:

>> something like (_ foo) on the scheme side
>
> Yes, xgettext recognises that, I tinkered with it for some messages to
> be shown by gtk.

Thank you both.  I submitted a patch for xgettext to recognise .scm
and use the Lisp parser (no offence intended :-)

> An interface to the gettext calls would be good now for 8-bit locales,
> even if something sophisticated for multibyte has to wait.

Ok, I just wrapped the C gettext from LilyPond for now.

Jan.

-- 
Jan Nieuwenhuizen <janneke@gnu.org> | GNU LilyPond - The music typesetter
http://www.xs4all.nl/~jantien       | http://www.lilypond.org


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Re: i18n, gettext support?

[Andreas Rottmann]

Jan Nieuwenhuizen <janneke@gnu.org> writes:

> Hi,
>
> What's the preferred way to internationalise GUILE code?
>
> I found a short two year old thread on guile-user, that stops short
> with a patch that fails.
>
> For the upcoming LilyPond 3.0, we have moved even more functionality
> from C++ to guile, and along with this messages that are exposed to
> the user.  These need to be ornamented and translated.
>
> I'm wondering whether we should duplicate a list of all messages in C
> code for xgettext to find, and do all printing of user messages
> through a C gettext wrapper?
>
A related (to i18n) issue: it would be nice to have positional
argument support in (ice-9 format); e.g.:

(format #t "~@2A ~@1A" "World!" "Hello")

would print "Hello World!". I just took @ as a position 'prefix',
since according to the docs, it is not taken yet. Alternative syntax
suggestions welcome. Why do you need this? Say you have a help message
format string "This is ~A ~A". When translated to another language,
the order of the arguments in the help message might be reversed
(yeah, I'm too lame to come up with a real example, but this happens,
trust me ;). 

What do you think about adding such a feature?

Andy
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Re: i18n, gettext support?

[Matthias Koeppe]

Andreas Rottmann <a.rottmann@gmx.at> writes:

> A related (to i18n) issue: it would be nice to have positional
> argument support in (ice-9 format); e.g.:
>
> (format #t "~@2A ~@1A" "World!" "Hello")
>
> would print "Hello World!". I just took @ as a position 'prefix',
> since according to the docs, it is not taken yet. Alternative syntax
> suggestions welcome. 

This is already possible with the ~@* format directive, see
http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_cga.htm 

     (format #t "~1@*~A ~0@*~A ~2@*" "World!" "Hello")

(The final ~2@* is necessary because Guile otherwise complains about
"1 superfluous argument". )

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Re: i18n, gettext support?

[Andreas Rottmann]

Matthias Koeppe <mkoeppe@mail.math.uni-magdeburg.de> writes:

> Andreas Rottmann <a.rottmann@gmx.at> writes:
>
>> A related (to i18n) issue: it would be nice to have positional
>> argument support in (ice-9 format); e.g.:
>>
>> (format #t "~@2A ~@1A" "World!" "Hello")
>>
>> would print "Hello World!". I just took @ as a position 'prefix',
>> since according to the docs, it is not taken yet. Alternative syntax
>> suggestions welcome. 
>
> This is already possible with the ~@* format directive, see
> http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_cga.htm 
>
>      (format #t "~1@*~A ~0@*~A ~2@*" "World!" "Hello")
>
> (The final ~2@* is necessary because Guile otherwise complains about
> "1 superfluous argument". )
>
Thanks for pointing this out (I've misread the documentation). Maybe
the "superfluous argument" error should be disabled when you use @*?

Andi
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Re: i18n, gettext support?

[Kevin Ryde]

Andreas Rottmann <a.rottmann@gmx.at> writes:
>
> Maybe
> the "superfluous argument" error should be disabled when you use @*?

Arguably that'd make sense, but I think common lisp says you have to
jump to the end.  (Which is why I put that in the docs, under "~*".)


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Re: i18n, gettext support?

[Matthias Koeppe]

Kevin Ryde <user42@zip.com.au> writes:

> Andreas Rottmann <a.rottmann@gmx.at> writes:
>>
>> Maybe
>> the "superfluous argument" error should be disabled when you use @*?
>
> Arguably that'd make sense, but I think common lisp says you have to
> jump to the end.  (Which is why I put that in the docs, under "~*".)

Actually, from the Common Lisp HyperSpec:

| 22.3.10.2 Missing and Additional FORMAT Arguments
| 
| The consequences are undefined if no arg remains for a directive
| requiring an argument. However, it is permissible for one or more
| args to remain unprocessed by a directive; such args are ignored.

So maybe the check for superfluous arguments should be disabled in
Guile (whether ~@* is used or not).  It's not a very important issue,
though; I'd say it's OK do deviate from CL here if it's documented.

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Re: i18n, gettext support?

[Kevin Ryde]

Matthias Koeppe <mkoeppe@merkur.math.uni-magdeburg.de> writes:
>
> | However, it is permissible for one or more
> | args to remain unprocessed by a directive; such args are ignored.

I must have misread that bit.  Or didn't read it properly and assumed
the code knew what it was doing.

> So maybe the check for superfluous arguments should be disabled in
> Guile (whether ~@* is used or not).

Sounds fair.  CL is the model for this stuff, there's nothing gained
by deviating from it for no particular reason.


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Re: i18n, gettext support?

[Marius Vollmer]

Kevin Ryde <user42@zip.com.au> writes:

>> So maybe the check for superfluous arguments should be disabled in
>> Guile (whether ~@* is used or not).
>
> Sounds fair.  CL is the model for this stuff, there's nothing gained
> by deviating from it for no particular reason.

I agree.


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Re: i18n, gettext support?

[Kevin Ryde]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 69 bytes --]

I removed this bit to ignore excess arguments, I think it's enough.


[-- Attachment #2: format.scm.excess.diff --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 517 bytes --]

--- format.scm.~1.23.~	2004-09-02 09:15:16.000000000 +1000
+++ format.scm	2004-09-02 09:27:37.000000000 +1000
@@ -194,10 +194,6 @@
 	  (let ((arg-pos (format:format-work fmt args))
 		(arg-len (length args)))
 	    (cond
-	     ((< arg-pos arg-len)
-	      (set! format:arg-pos (+ arg-pos 1))
-	      (set! format:pos (string-length fmt))
-	      (format:error "~a superfluous argument~:p" (- arg-len arg-pos)))
 	     ((> arg-pos arg-len)
 	      (set! format:arg-pos (+ arg-len 1))
 	      (display format:arg-pos)

[-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 143 bytes --]

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Re: i18n, gettext support?

[Kevin Ryde]

Andreas Rottmann <a.rottmann@gmx.at> writes:
>
> I just took @ as a position 'prefix',
> since according to the docs, it is not taken yet.

Actually it is taken, see latest greatly expanded docs :-).


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