From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Greg Troxel Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.devel Subject: Re: Add internal definitions to derived forms Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2023 10:38:14 -0500 Message-ID: References: <2f38c5ea-0cb6-494e-b680-70b39c3291fb@app.fastmail.com> <87y1pqslab.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="6324"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.2 (berkeley-unix) Cc: To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Original-X-From: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Jan 25 16:38:49 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pKhrL-0001R7-Qk for guile-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 25 Jan 2023 16:38:48 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pKhqw-0006f7-IR; Wed, 25 Jan 2023 10:38:22 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pKhqu-0006ey-9t for guile-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Jan 2023 10:38:20 -0500 Original-Received: from s1.lexort.com ([71.19.148.97]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pKhqs-0004AV-38; Wed, 25 Jan 2023 10:38:19 -0500 Original-Received: by s1.lexort.com (Postfix, from userid 10853) id 736A04106A1; Wed, 25 Jan 2023 10:38:14 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=lexort.com; s=mail; t=1674661094; bh=xQJbzOKRkHmksX+WcPqWA+XUXGQhJqIWwe5RUFijPt8=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=nB8LHG0jdCWjkNDv9IxBNDPLHw+XF/vlkkCYppT5DSpRrlXdm1BmgZ4YIqN9Qc2rI el5ts+gpEF9yzjll2nOtddVWvFoUndHVRYJ6iLYSVUTPVxlvaq7f047NiX6EPSAEYg 1+skWOTSfiT8UsU5KdzaYIAiF2v0WjlHcszkwjCQ= OpenPGP: id=098ED60E In-Reply-To: <87y1pqslab.fsf@gnu.org> ("Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s=22'?= =?utf-8?Q?s?= message of "Wed, 25 Jan 2023 16:09:48 +0100") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=71.19.148.97; envelope-from=gdt@lexort.com; helo=s1.lexort.com X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guile-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Developers list for Guile, the GNU extensibility library" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.lisp.guile.devel:21636 Archived-At: Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: > The reason I=E2=80=99m hesitant is that, while I think it=E2=80=99s nice = to be able to > have local =E2=80=98define=E2=80=99 in these contexts, I=E2=80=99m wary o= f diverging from R5RS > and R6RS. Since it=E2=80=99s a one-way change (we won=E2=80=99t be able = to revert it > once people rely on it), I thought we=E2=80=99d rather be careful. My reaction, without thinking much, and being fuzzy on a lot of things is that part of the point of guile is that it is Scheme which to me means RnRS conformance. Of course it's not exactly and every other Scheme impl is not exactly. But mostly I think that's a bug as it leads to incompatible programs. For example, there are many shell scripts out there that use =3D=3D in test, because bash decided to have an extension. This is not useful, except perhaps to people writing in sh that think they are writing C :-) but it does mean that these scripts become limited to bash rather than any "POSIX sh implementation". Does the new feature advance the goal of guile as an extension language? Is this heading for inclusino in the next RnRS?