From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Neil Jerram Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.devel Subject: Re: memoization and error messages Date: 28 Nov 2002 19:34:11 +0000 Sender: guile-devel-admin@gnu.org Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1038513185 23384 80.91.224.249 (28 Nov 2002 19:53:05 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 19:53:05 +0000 (UTC) Cc: tomas@fabula.de, guile-devel@gnu.org Return-path: Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18HUgs-000617-00 for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 20:51:14 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18HUhu-0007Iu-00; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 14:52:18 -0500 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 18HUhC-0006Gk-00 for guile-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 14:51:34 -0500 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 18HUh9-0006GO-00 for guile-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 14:51:33 -0500 Original-Received: from mail.uklinux.net ([80.84.72.21] helo=s1.uklinux.net) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18HUfq-0005a1-00 for guile-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 14:50:10 -0500 Original-Received: from laruns.ossau.uklinux.net (bts-0343.dialup.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.49.87]) by s1.uklinux.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gASJo0l25222; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 19:50:00 GMT Original-Received: from laruns.ossau.uklinux.net.ossau.uklinux.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by laruns.ossau.uklinux.net (Postfix on SuSE Linux 7.2 (i386)) with ESMTP id 30403DC12B; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 19:34:11 +0000 (GMT) Original-To: Dirk Herrmann In-Reply-To: Original-Lines: 39 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 Errors-To: guile-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: guile-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Developers list for Guile, the GNU extensibility library List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.lisp.guile.devel:1760 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.guile.devel:1760 >>>>> "Dirk" == Dirk Herrmann writes: Dirk> On Sun, 24 Nov 2002 tomas@fabula.de wrote: >> That means that macros aren't anymore `first class objects'? What >> consequences does this have for meta-programming? Dirk> I don't know. Can you be a little more specific about what you want to Dirk> accomplish that you can only accomplish with macros as first-class objects Dirk> (or rather said "accomplish cleanly")? If so, please provide code Dirk> examples that show your approaches. What about the uses of `macro?' in `fset' in lang/elisp/internals/fset.scm - how does this code look with your changes? (My understanding is that it is no longer possible to pass around a macro value in a variable - please correct me if that's wrong.) Dirk> [rambling on] Dirk> It may make sense to point out the following: Separate in-advance Dirk> memoization brings the possibility to speed up evaluation, it allows to Dirk> store pre-compiled code and thus speed up loading time, and it is a great Dirk> way to clean up guile's internals and achieve better R5RS conformance. Agreed, and it paves the way for various kinds of fuller compilation. Dirk> But, for those who depend on dynamic code expansion (i. e. re-expansion of Dirk> code whenever a macro changes) there is always eval. I think you are probably right that eval is the way forward, so I'll try to learn to like it :-) However, I wonder if dynamic expansion usages actually need local-eval rather than R5RS eval - which is tricky because local-eval is in a grey area at the moment. (i.e. Marius called it a `weird critter' :-) To test this, I offer a challenge (to anyone, not just Dirk): given define-macro (or defmacro) behaving as Dirk proposes, write a define-non-memoizing-macro macro that can be used to define a macro that is expanded every time its containing expression is evaluated. Neil _______________________________________________ Guile-devel mailing list Guile-devel@gnu.org http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/guile-devel