From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Andy Wingo Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.devel Subject: Re: r6rs standard libraries Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 22:41:44 +0100 Message-ID: References: <2bc5f8211001240953h4959cb2ar3540be3d464fdaa2@mail.gmail.com> <87aaw2jdbq.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1264496131 19493 80.91.229.12 (26 Jan 2010 08:55:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 08:55:31 +0000 (UTC) Cc: guile-devel@gnu.org To: ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?=) Original-X-From: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jan 26 09:55:22 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1NZhCi-0001NQ-U4 for guile-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 26 Jan 2010 09:55:21 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45465 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NZhCj-00048s-W2 for guile-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 26 Jan 2010 03:55:22 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NZgwu-00058B-H8 for guile-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 26 Jan 2010 03:39:00 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NZgwo-00057Q-NR for guile-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 26 Jan 2010 03:38:59 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=59548 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NZgwn-00057F-7w for guile-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 26 Jan 2010 03:38:53 -0500 Original-Received: from mx20.gnu.org ([199.232.41.8]:43442) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NZgwl-0001EL-5d; Tue, 26 Jan 2010 03:38:51 -0500 Original-Received: from a-pb-sasl-quonix.pobox.com ([208.72.237.25] helo=sasl.smtp.pobox.com) by mx20.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NZgwk-000409-Eq; Tue, 26 Jan 2010 03:38:50 -0500 Original-Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by a-pb-sasl-quonix.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C9D59475A; Tue, 26 Jan 2010 03:34:47 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=pobox.com; h=from:to:cc :subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=sasl; bh=zGF2JtjyOupr jKkE+7S3MgAV8Os=; b=oF1Y7et3XDzI+jgCTBHiWvhar/3/Cq1lkyQt0scqYfRL 6fhhFnusoH0695zYLJYktvTEP0Sxk18We8XVNsNVdT/mQT4YOotEJEwd1LpjPnG7 IGIUhXgyBf7f5TO/NdYE/l3bmlN5lAJjqmJ7L9EKupJHZaBD+7aKeSyQmQSmmVc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=pobox.com; h=from:to:cc :subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; q=dns; s=sasl; b=kB4s5I 1P+xFaKO+SmReo48u1O74KvmPI6I8RgdY/rpplj645kPex2TdQyOrVxbxiBo15RP AWe/TfjEFmsyYA1sGOMYLxn93vm1IfqAxZXL4nUsfmwUAxz9X3+I7BGIODYufA+y jh+CW/adINje2RaCPYj2SgCZpzbbUSUoTab3k= Original-Received: from a-pb-sasl-quonix. (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by a-pb-sasl-quonix.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7BB794759; Tue, 26 Jan 2010 03:34:45 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from unquote (unknown [80.24.4.74]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by a-pb-sasl-quonix.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1C4AE94758; Tue, 26 Jan 2010 03:34:43 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <87aaw2jdbq.fsf@gnu.org> ("Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s=22'?= =?utf-8?Q?s?= message of "Mon, 25 Jan 2010 18:37:13 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.92 (gnu/linux) X-Pobox-Relay-ID: A875D030-0A55-11DF-AF53-6AF7ED7EF46B-02397024!a-pb-sasl-quonix.pobox.com X-detected-operating-system: by mx20.gnu.org: Solaris 10 (beta) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: guile-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Developers list for Guile, the GNU extensibility library" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.lisp.guile.devel:9927 Archived-At: Greets, On Mon 25 Jan 2010 18:37, ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic Court=C3=A8s) writes: > Andy Wingo writes: > >> On Sun 24 Jan 2010 18:53, Julian Graham writes: >> >>> One point that may be of interest is that I've chosen to provide the >>> code in the form of R6RS libraries rather than Guile modules. > > Though if =E2=80=98library=E2=80=99 expands to =E2=80=98define-module=E2= =80=99, R6RS modules will also > be readily usable as if they were =E2=80=9Cregular=E2=80=9D guile modules= , right? `library' does expand out to `define-module', and yes R6RS modules are usable as "regular" guile modules. >> I also think we should have `library' and `import' in the basic >> environment. > > The global environment is already a crowded place, and having these > forms globally may make it harder to maintain backward compatibility in > the future, should R15RS have an incompatible =E2=80=98library=E2=80=99 f= orm, for > instance. > > How about having a special module and a command-line option, just like > we have =E2=80=98--use-srfi=E2=80=99? I'm sympathetic, but I think you're overstating the situation. New Scheme revisions don't come but every 5 or 10 years. I'm sure we've already broken with R3RS. We can always provide specific back-compatibility modules, but the default should work, if possible, with the current state of Scheme. (Assuming we can implement R6RS, that is.) Beyond that, we're just talking about two identifiers. R6RS modules themselves *explicitly* declare what they import, so maintaining compat for them is much easier than maintaining compat for Guile modules, at least Guile modules that aren't #:pure. Yes, the names are a burden on the namespace, but I don't think they're "creeping", in the sense that they will expand in the future. If you're dead-set against r6rs support by default, that's cool. But if not, have I managed to convince you that we should have these by default? :) Cheers, Andy --=20 http://wingolog.org/