From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?Q?Todor_Kondi=C4=87?= Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.user,gmane.lisp.guile.devel Subject: Re: conflicts in the gnu project now affect guile Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2019 11:29:35 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: =?UTF-8?Q?Todor_Kondi=C4=87?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="74458"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" To: "guile-devel@gnu.org" , "guile-user@gnu.org" Original-X-From: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 18 13:32:13 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-user@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iLQUO-000JDa-0B for guile-user@m.gmane.org; Fri, 18 Oct 2019 13:32:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38216 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iLQUL-0003T3-LT for guile-user@m.gmane.org; Fri, 18 Oct 2019 07:32:09 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34153) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iLQS7-0002GM-LX for guile-user@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Oct 2019 07:29:52 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iLQS6-0004O4-De for guile-user@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Oct 2019 07:29:51 -0400 Original-Received: from mail4.protonmail.ch ([185.70.40.27]:47818) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iLQS2-0004Lo-Hv; Fri, 18 Oct 2019 07:29:47 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=default; t=1571398180; bh=32458wABiKhGMelijKiUBU49PBMxQ/+tTw9QQIGHer4=; h=Date:To:From:Reply-To:Subject:Feedback-ID:From; b=P03r+NhmnDUOt78VjiHt6IoM25gKhRK4mwyQ/SLjwZAj4E/lvo37ZpgYT8C5eO1C8 KRMwA7QF3wb627yja7AiA+DMf2vqK8E2YNx52OLBdVA3wD0E9S81lBEYRJ595O31l0 7Pv4cUeB9wund13o2F74FZgx1c6iMwAWP4WHcqnQ= Feedback-ID: H-HDHPDhHGpnHYYqEeeELdj-Ly2a7MuykpUWpBFgfQ1BCJpPfO2vKz9YpJUb7-VnGIEXLb5c-uxqytN6PxXV2Q==:Ext:ProtonMail X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 185.70.40.27 X-BeenThere: guile-user@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: General Guile related discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "guile-user" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.lisp.guile.user:15764 gmane.lisp.guile.devel:20108 Archived-At: Dear Andy, As a subscriber to the guile-user list only, I got wind of this discussion = indirectly. If you already want a thorough discussion about future from the= community members, perhaps including its less technical members (users) wo= uld not be such a bad idea (ie guile-user list, too). Consider it an invest= ment. Let me start by stating that this kind of ego shitstorm (RMS scandal, joint= statement, and now Mark; oh and pardon my words ... I do write this email = away from work in ten minutes that I have left until the lunch break is ove= r, so it's kind of okay) I have not seen for ages. It was disconcerting to = watch the tidal wave expanding trough the entire GNU universe, even our lit= tle galaxy. In the discussion so far people start with platitudes about past work and t= hen pour the worst kind of stuff over the recipient, so I'll skip that. Now to the topic. The thing that concerns my skin the most. Believe it, or not, after long time as an avid supporter of GNU Social move= ment (because this is what GNU means to me) and its core values, I am final= ly in a position to introduce GNU based software, including Guix and Guile = into the research environment where I currently work. I have a Guix-based d= istro in the works which will encompass the set of tools we as a group deve= lop and I will ship it to our collaborators and already have students using= the development versions of it. There are various data processing scripts = written in Guile and I can imagine the corpus growing. Isn't this amazing? So, lets stop here and think for a moment. A month ago, free software movem= ent was on the surface of it in a never better position. There are companie= s producing laptops, even phones based on fully free firmware ... i mean, i= ordered a phone that will run FSF certified GNU Linux distro. This was inc= onceivable even just five years ago (at least to me). There are serious alt= ernatives to proprietary communication apps, even for voip, etc. And then, that medium article happens. You know, there is a big IT department within our institution and telling t= hem I will base some serious work on technologies such as GNU Guile and Gu= ix did raise a few eyebrows (those not raised are probably the cause of the= ir proprietors not being informed enough). I think the IT folk shall sooner, or later start laughing in my face. Also,= I am starting to question my initial somewhat-risky decision to go the Sch= eme route. So my message to maintainers: get your shit together, focus on the core val= ues that brought all of us into this boat, understand we're all imperfect b= eings and lets keep working on cool stuff. Know that you have users and we'= re trying to expand your good work. Don't make that harder. Couple of notes: 1) Are there any ladies on these lists? I am *dying* to hear from them 2) Related to (1) ... a brief look at the maintainers who signed the Joined= Statement gives an impression that it leans heavily to the politically Wes= tern hemisphere; just a comment, maybe food for thought 3) The RMS scandal was brought to my attention by a female coder colleague = who previously knew nothing of RMS's, or FSF's or GNU's work in the "Open S= ource Community"; another nibble for thought Now gotta go, sorry for the long email, but I hope that knowing someone in = the world tries to put your tools to practical use in a production environment make you all understand how magic you produce is more important than what sets us all apart.