From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Blake Shaw via "Developers list for Guile, the GNU extensibility library" Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.devel Subject: Re: The message chain with an happy ending Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2023 17:42:21 +0700 Message-ID: References: <26550559-5a4d-2f7e-99a6-e471eeaeaddc@telenet.be> <252c4ca8-94b7-7b1b-80de-7c50768ba581@telenet.be> Reply-To: Blake Shaw Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----77Q5BCM3BGQ2QUN6JXMDKYKZWRNFKZ" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="27451"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Stefan Israelsson Tampe , Lars Magnus Jonsson , Markus Triska ,Lenz Maria , Johan Lenz ,Mikael Djurfeldt , Andy Wingo ,Alex Shinn , Amirouche Boubekki ,anders.bergdahl@se.abb.com, Arne Babenhauserheide , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Anton_Bergstr=F6m?= , Chaos Eternal ,christoffer.holmstedt@se.abb.com, guile-devel ,eckhard.tampe@gmail.com, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?T=E4rna_folkh=F6gskola?= , flyktingguide.vasteras@redcross.se, Mikael Jansson ,Ian Price , sarah.jansson@falcksverige.se,Sarah Jansson Original-X-From: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Jul 05 12:43:30 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qGzyo-0006wZ-NI for guile-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 05 Jul 2023 12:43:29 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qGzyC-0007aj-Ht; Wed, 05 Jul 2023 06:42:48 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qGzy9-0007Zz-Aq for guile-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Jul 2023 06:42:46 -0400 Original-Received: from out-28.mta1.migadu.com ([95.215.58.28]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qGzy5-0004yZ-Hd for guile-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Jul 2023 06:42:45 -0400 In-Reply-To: <252c4ca8-94b7-7b1b-80de-7c50768ba581@telenet.be> DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=reproduciblemedia.com; s=key1; t=1688553759; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=cldF9YQJSos5YQPH3SEJAdAETdGsviV45XFHC6OL0MQ=; b=TTnb2MVZZT3X7c5So5+DyVjVdPnnb589fBeJpG99bkKoEm3zLd7p37yKAV4tj2vA31Zlpn 4OALfzA+kP6iZ+JuRYx2mOBRnWOerD+qXAYZNkx97r27V/TKRvfmLKggKbVlX+uWbUjuGl 839zSKdBfbzMK0eKygPy2JluKh8upPdP+yaPx+6sZJrFFmVH8NubF9vjUoDfbw7viaaipW 7y2+2uwpFVFeyzoh+WNT4qdwYrQRX2Pw+vfJX+Hi5a6eTa7bJogwD+zOlRMywczBZTr6Pc pc65Ft4bX38QJJ6c/XmFZSQ5qbjJ1bIspRZyQ6WdqvVBTg/YPF6SAXe13vnWcA== X-Referenced-Uid: 19649 Thread-Topic: Re: The message chain with an happy ending X-Blue-Identity: !l=350&o=342&fo=3173&pl=312&po=0&qs=PREFIX&f=HTML&m=!%3AYjU1NzQxYTEtNmViMi00NWUyLWFkMmUtMDE5NDg1Y2EzZDNi%3ASU5CT1g%3D%3AMTk2NDk%3D%3AANSWERED&p=310&q=SHOW X-Is-Generated-Message-Id: true X-Report-Abuse: Please report any abuse attempt to abuse@migadu.com and include these headers. X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_OUT Received-SPF: pass client-ip=95.215.58.28; envelope-from=blake@reproduciblemedia.com; helo=out-28.mta1.migadu.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guile-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Developers list for Guile, the GNU extensibility library" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.lisp.guile.devel:21883 Archived-At: ------77Q5BCM3BGQ2QUN6JXMDKYKZWRNFKZ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I think the guile mailing list has come to suffer seriously from a policing= of what is appropriate for discussion=2E When I first started getting into= guile at the beginning of 2021, the list was more open, active and enjoyab= le=2E Since then it has become a ghost town where tumbleweeds blow by in th= e time that remains between intermittent duals=2E But strangely there are s= till lots of people living in the town (ie guile users), they just seldom v= isit main street these days=2E I'm personally interested to hear about wha= t Stefan and other Guilers are up to beyond Guile, insofar as nobody is dir= ecting hate or bigotry=2E But more importantly, I wish that Guile could aga= in become a space that welcomes discourse insofar as that discourse isn't p= erceived by some as causing harm or stirring irrelevant controversy=2E On = Jul 5, 2023, 17:22, at 17:22, Maxime Devos wrote= : >Op 02-07-2023 om 16:43 schreef Stefan Israelsson Tampe: >> It's part of = the blog, computers tab, I see guile scheme as an art >and >> have a few s= uggestions of great improvements for it=2E But you have to >> demand those= features if you like it=2E > >The article and blog post you sent does not = contain anything about >Guile >Scheme -- there are blog posts that do cont= ain stuff about Guile, but >this wasn't one of them=2E > >> And if you do = not see we have some >> serious issues in the world, just ignore it as muc= h as you like=2E >Enjoy >> your sleep=2E=2E=2E > >This is non-sequitur, be= cause of the following reasons: > > 1=2E Seeing or not seeing serious iss= ues in the world does not have > anything to do with the decision to ign= ore or not ignore the paper, > because it is a physics paper, not a se= rious issues paper=2E > > 2=2E I never said I ignored it -- in fact, I sk= immed it to see if it > contains anything about Guile or serious issue= s in the world, and > it turned out that the article only contains phy= sics, which while > interesting, is not something I'm _personally_ int= erested in=2E > > 3=2E I also did not ignore the top part of the e-mail >= (=E2=80=98=2E=2E=2E The basis idea [=2E=2E=2E] and want us all to sta= rt doing > something=2E Please copy to anyone that you think should re= ad > this=2E=E2=80=99)=2E It is one of the reasons I sent my question= on why > should guile-devel@gnu=2Eorg read this article unrelated to = Guile=2E > > 4=2E I asked why guile-devel@gnu=2Eorg is in the To, not whe= ther it > should be read or ignored=2E > >More to the point, my issue = with this is that apparently it is >completely off-topic for Guile, becaus= e it is not about Guile at all, >and in particular not about Guile develop= ment=2E There exist many fora >on >which you could talk about such things= (*), without resorting to chain >mails=2E > >(*) To list an example: >=2E > >Best regards, >Maxime Devos ------77Q5BCM3BGQ2QUN6JXMDKYKZWRNFKZ Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I think the = guile mailing list has come to suffer seriously from a policing of what is = appropriate for discussion=2E When I first started getting into guile at th= e beginning of 2021, the list was more open, active and enjoyable=2E Since = then it has become a ghost town where tumbleweeds blow by in the time that = remains between intermittent duals=2E But strangely there are still lots of= people living in the town (ie guile users), they just seldom visit main st= reet these days=2E

I'm personally intereste= d to hear about what Stefan and other Guilers are up to beyond Guile, insof= ar as nobody is directing hate or bigotry=2E But more importantly, I wish t= hat Guile could again become a space that welcomes discourse insofar as tha= t discourse isn't perceived by some as causing harm or stirring irrelevant = controversy=2E
On Jul 5, 2023, at 17:22, = Maxime Devos <maximedevos@telenet=2Ebe> wrote:
Op 02-07-2023 om 16:43 sch=
reef Stefan Israelsson Tampe:
 It's part of the blog, computers tab, I see guile scheme as an art =
and 
 have a few suggestions of great improvements for it=2E But you hav=
e to 
 demand those features if you like it=2E

The a=
rticle and blog post you sent does not contain anything about Guile 
Sch=
eme -- there are blog posts that do contain stuff about Guile, but 
this=
 wasn't one of them=2E

 And if you do not see we have some 
 serious issues in the world, j=
ust ignore it as much as you like=2E Enjoy 
 your sleep=2E=2E=2E

This is non-sequitur, because of the following reasons:
   1=2E Seeing or not seeing serious issues in the world does not have
=
      anything to do with the decision to ignore or not ignore the paper,      because it is a physics paper, not a serious issues paper=2E
   2=2E I never said I ignored it -- in fact, I skimmed it to see if it      contains anything about Guile or serious issues in the world, and      it turned out that the article only contains physics, which while      interesting, is not something I'm _personally_ interested in=2E
<=
br>   3=2E I also did not ignore the top part of the e-mail
      (=E2=
=80=98=2E=2E=2E The basis idea [=2E=2E=2E] and want us all to start doing      something=2E Please copy to anyone that you think should read
  =
    this=2E=E2=80=99)=2E  It is one of the reasons I sent my question on wh=
y
      should guile-devel@gnu=2Eorg read this article unrelated to Guil=
e=2E

   4=2E I asked why guile-devel@gnu=2Eorg is in the To, not whe=
ther it
      should be read or ignored=2E

More to the point, my =
issue with this is that apparently it is 
completely off-topic for Guile=
, because it is not about Guile at all, 
and in particular not about Gui=
le development=2E  There exist many fora on 
which you could talk about =
such things (*), without resorting to chain 
mails=2E

(*) To list=
 an example: 
<https://forums=2Esufficientve=
locity=2Ecom/threads/welcome-to-science-technology=2E41297/>=2E
<=
br>Best regards,
Maxime Devos
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