From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Panicz Maciej Godek Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.devel Subject: Re: Towards De-icing ice-9 modules. Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2016 22:35:38 +0100 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7beb99d2bc8f9e052b9972e2 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1455312954 15630 80.91.229.3 (12 Feb 2016 21:35:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2016 21:35:54 +0000 (UTC) Cc: guile-devel To: Chad Albers Original-X-From: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Feb 12 22:35:53 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aULNY-0004FC-TS for guile-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2016 22:35:53 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36470 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aULNY-00013y-5W for guile-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2016 16:35:52 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:54141) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aULNN-00013V-DP for guile-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2016 16:35:42 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aULNL-00021O-SA for guile-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2016 16:35:41 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-wm0-x22e.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c09::22e]:37889) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aULNL-00020C-GK for guile-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2016 16:35:39 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-wm0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id p63so36091085wmp.1 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2016 13:35:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=QHUtrhZQJEFoVxp28yRzNm+GgNITal9WzFg9MNfxBFc=; b=qBFkmOrDSu8PI/asnGragpJBOC6DpuQL5a5+g5yeXuBlRFhkypwXqyRBXAdGaDIYCn q10tMbYzrVw59RjCoy650kSW3jBmfsuwA9hb2wI3ZAWyw8xZYoDcVABPVKd5rG/JiSYG gkGZwOj5QV9ctK2zRlmZJVOKmNTwmH25hWXVPvGOrZeHS3d9jzecKHvmnTupMYNndf4O 9KCaaiqrk1yZUUzRIW1Oc4/CNkuMGIQtVBAy0CeGwQylpplw1OZwBL03thk56OlweZ2t qpimv+O8+UWnuGkWeEhCqlCQe+d62aSYWoeHqUOZCunXWAikyXwk16iMxmIrbgGNxaN0 AzJA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=QHUtrhZQJEFoVxp28yRzNm+GgNITal9WzFg9MNfxBFc=; b=eIjbRibLtrza3VLPw3+3wlwozcS+UkWFg5qfSEdp3t6y6xbjpffI6ZmbsO0np5vDZk jRNQ3X0y1HIwdvx5OTNSmzmSx3ZO6XHhkDxygtYj21mrIM2KAOaY+2uPKnWN0rTDi4RI X0d1ilR/qLXWFRKVaxpWj5MpmDHan+9BO3DLde2f//JzuAcjGXuE4237NSHU4qXbuils xahUS4Z7Kg6X3d0g93ofEG5+YS2jivH6HPQTkJM7EIsVyVZvyrz1DmWTkCOVaa8LyYp/ xZ6bgllnuZtHDQu9ft2uawoHdXVsKTJfPjaCz71Ys8F4XBOR8m/C53/ACZpssoWhmp/X IsZQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YOQ44OTpQZK0V2GQrh/JeCFXwKRGdcR/SPy70WOc5EV4v5l3nGHcei1qZWGPpoDZZ/7UjjmbMyMa+W7gsA== X-Received: by 10.194.189.143 with SMTP id gi15mr3847477wjc.54.1455312938500; Fri, 12 Feb 2016 13:35:38 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.195.11.201 with HTTP; Fri, 12 Feb 2016 13:35:38 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:400c:c09::22e X-BeenThere: guile-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Developers list for Guile, the GNU extensibility library" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.lisp.guile.devel:18171 Archived-At: --047d7beb99d2bc8f9e052b9972e2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 2016-02-12 21:41 GMT+01:00 Chad Albers : > Hi, > > In my attempt to assist the guile project, I thought I would share a > document on a plan to migrate some of the ice-9 modules into a more > intuitive, yet to be decided, namespace. Before I proposed a technological > plan, I have begun really an audit of what ice-9 modules are available (and > undocumented), and other modules that guile ships with. (there are some > secrets down there). > Hi, maybe I'm on a bit conservative side, but as far as I can tell, there is a recurring suggestion is to rename modules called (ice-9 xxx) as (guile xxx). While I do agree that the "ice-9" name isn't particularly intuitive, it does provide a metaphor that grasps the idea that inspired Guile. Beside this little difference -- that "ice-9" might be slightly unobvious to newcommers -- I see no cognitive advantage in that renaming, while there is a huge disadvantage of breaking backwards compatibility of many programs that use Guile. If the modification was to be meaningful, we should group modules into logical categories -- for example, rename (ice-9 and-let-star) to (syntax and-let*), (ice-9 threads) to (control threads) and (ice-9 readline) to (utils readline), for instance. What I think would be a cooler idea is to provide a mechanism for automatically fetching the required modules (in their required versions) from specified git repositories, so that once a program is written, one wouldn't have to worry about its dependecies. It would also be nice to have a tool that would be able to trace the modifications in the source code to see whether it contains any changes that could break the existing functionality compared to some earler version. (this would probably be difficult to do in general, but perhaps there are some common use cases that could be easily covered) Best regards, Panicz --047d7beb99d2bc8f9e052b9972e2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

= 2016-02-12 21:41 GMT+01:00 Chad Albers <calbers@neomantic.com><= /span>:
Hi,

In my attempt to assist the guile project, I thought I wo= uld share a document on a plan to migrate some of the ice-9 modules into a = more intuitive, yet to be decided, namespace.=C2=A0 Before I proposed a tec= hnological plan, I have begun really an audit of what ice-9 modules are ava= ilable (and undocumented), and other modules that guile ships with. (there = are some secrets down there).

H= i,
maybe I'm on a bit conservative side, but as far as I = can tell, there is a recurring suggestion is to rename modules called (ice-= 9 xxx) as (guile xxx).
While I do agree that the "ice-9&= quot; name isn't particularly intuitive, it does provide a metaphor tha= t grasps the idea that inspired Guile.

Beside this little= difference -- that "ice-9" might be slightly unobvious to newcom= mers -- I see no cognitive advantage in that renaming, while there is a hug= e disadvantage of breaking backwards compatibility of many programs that us= e Guile.

If the modification was to be meaningful, we sho= uld group modules into logical categories -- for example, rename (ice-9 and= -let-star) to (syntax and-let*),=C2=A0 (ice-9 threads) to (control threads)= and (ice-9 readline) to (utils readline), for instance.

= What I think would be a cooler idea is to provide a mechanism for automatic= ally fetching the required modules (in their required versions) from specif= ied git repositories, so that once a program is written, one wouldn't h= ave to worry about its dependecies.

It would a= lso be nice to have a tool that would be able to trace the modifications in= the source code to see whether it contains any changes that could break th= e existing functionality compared to some earler version.

(this would probably be difficult to do in general, but perhaps there are = some common use cases that could be easily covered)

Best = regards,
Panicz
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