From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ian Grant Newsgroups: gmane.comp.gnu.lightning.general,gmane.lisp.guile.devel Subject: Re: Bug free programs Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 20:50:20 -0400 Message-ID: References: <20140917005748.8CXVB.21497.root@cdptpa-web03> <8738brsz82.fsf@yeeloong.lan> <87a95yp341.fsf@yeeloong.lan> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0288920772603811743==" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1411001515 23279 80.91.229.3 (18 Sep 2014 00:51:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 00:51:55 +0000 (UTC) Cc: lightning , dsmich-XauvlLoUTru+XT7JhA+gdA@public.gmane.org, guile-devel To: Mark H Weaver Original-X-From: lightning-bounces+gcglg-lightning=m.gmane.org-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org Thu Sep 18 02:51:49 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: gcglg-lightning@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XUPwo-0001f7-Vr for gcglg-lightning@m.gmane.org; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 02:51:47 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47924 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XUPwo-0007ei-FS for gcglg-lightning@m.gmane.org; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 20:51:46 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:57328) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XUPwg-0007ec-VK for lightning-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 20:51:43 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XUPwc-000725-MA for lightning-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 20:51:38 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-we0-f178.google.com ([74.125.82.178]:53086) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XUPwc-0006yx-D9; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 20:51:34 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-we0-f178.google.com with SMTP id q58so120771wes.9 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 17:50:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=r/tAnyMOJEg1dGc0B16d7DHrz2lkvjI9y1eriwdWSKI=; b=PLwVLthpN8we7KNToCPsK//tj6qZiEEmppjR0JVefBpuL2cOndLsqfF70Sqo6IQzHJ hDNJOx1XhxWC0JYKP9KlyhdPDFpZMvWO7GuyOF6TyjWivQuupdRJqSFEi1/Zx9UdsuQ+ olZnw1MKrQQmNK9Brcg1HI9j4foeadR32OMAKrImcGEKKp9oMKhDILc8NUucM2weaKBI 2+K7XPuVtgsIk/gOXCBgoSvg85cq3tZ08qwlKJ0kTvtVDBaCFHjjqjkoAqB89Bu0LnlY Ix2184QlQEn26+wHLqATK4xSSwvLAip4y4qD/TgsDvYqhnFkGZeBPNqXbTo6Z+hGgkMC jkwQ== X-Received: by 10.194.2.12 with SMTP id 12mr939382wjq.54.1411001420833; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 17:50:20 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.194.81.194 with HTTP; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 17:50:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 74.125.82.178 X-BeenThere: lightning-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: lightning-bounces+gcglg-lightning=m.gmane.org-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org Original-Sender: lightning-bounces+gcglg-lightning=m.gmane.org-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.gnu.lightning.general:595 gmane.lisp.guile.devel:17479 Archived-At: --===============0288920772603811743== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b3a8760776bc805034c5edb --047d7b3a8760776bc805034c5edb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 5:57 PM, Ian Grant wrote: > Now tell me how it is _you_ know that what you did doesn't earn you > and Richard Stallman a fetching orange jump-suit each, and an > all-expenses-paid vacation at a Government holiday camp in the South > East Florida Keys, with power-showers every two hours and where you > get to listen to the same Eminem song (there is only one) 24 hours a > day? Here's a clue. It's from Lewis Carroll's "Symbolic Logic" http://www.gutenberg.org/2/8/6/9/28696/ (4) "Of the prisoners who were put on their trial at the last Assizes, all, against whom the verdict 'guilty' was returned, were sentenced to imprisonment; Some, who were sentenced to imprisonment, were also sentenced to hard labour". Let Univ. be "the prisoners who were put on their trial at the last Assizes"; m =3D who were sentenced to imprisonment; x =3D against whom the verdict 'guilty' was returned; y =3D who were sentenced to hard labour. The Premisses, translated into abstract form, are "All x are m; Some m are y". Breaking up the first, we get the three (1) "Some x are m; (2) No x are m'; (3) Some m are y". Representing these, in the order 2, 1, 3, on a Triliteral Diagram, we get =C2=B7---------------=C2=B7 |(O) | (O)| | =C2=B7---|---=C2=B7 | | | (I) | | |---|(I)|---|---| | | | | | | =C2=B7---|---=C2=B7 | | | | =C2=B7---------------=C2=B7 Here we get no Conclusion at all. You would very likely have guessed, if you had seen _only_ the Premisses, that the Conclusion would be "Some, against whom the verdict 'guilty' was returned, were sentenced to hard labour". But this Conclusion is not even _true_, with regard to the Assizes I have here invented. --047d7b3a8760776bc805034c5edb Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 5:57 PM, Ian Grant <ian.a.n.grant-gM/Ye1E23mwN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org&= gt; wrote:
> Now tell me how it is _you_ know that what you did doesn= 't earn you
> and Richard Stallman a fetching orange jump-suit ea= ch, and an
> all-expenses-paid vacation at a Government holiday camp = in the South
> East Florida Keys, with power-showers every two hours = and where you
> get to listen to the same Eminem song (there is only = one) 24 hours a
> day?

Here's a clue. It's from = Lewis Carroll's "Symbolic Logic" http://www.gutenberg.org/2/8/6/9/28696/

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (= 4)

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "Of the prisoners who were put o= n their trial at the last
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Assiz= es, all, against whom the verdict 'guilty' was
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0returned, were sentenced to imprisonment;
=C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Some, who were sentenced to imprisonment, were = also
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0sentenced to hard labour&q= uot;.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Let Univ. be "the prisoners who were put on= their trial at the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 last Assizes"; m =3D who were sen= tenced to imprisonment;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 x =3D against whom the verdict = 9;guilty' was returned; y =3D who were
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 sentenced to ha= rd labour.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The Premisses, translated into abstract for= m, are

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "All x are m;
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Some m are y".

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Breaking u= p the first, we get the three

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (1) "= Some x are m;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (2) =C2=A0No x are m';
= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (3) =C2=A0Some m are y".

=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 Representing these, in the order 2, 1, 3, on a Triliteral
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 Diagram, we get

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=B7--------------= -=C2=B7
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |(O) =C2=A0 =C2=A0| =C2=A0 =C2=A0(O)= |
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 =C2=B7---|---=C2=B7 =C2=A0 |
= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 | =C2=A0(I) =C2=A0| =C2=A0 |
=C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |---|(I)|---|---|
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | = =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 |
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | =C2=A0= =C2=B7---|---=C2=B7 =C2=A0 |
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=B7--= -------------=C2=B7

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Here we get no Conclusion at all.<= br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 You would very likely have guessed, if you had seen _o= nly_ the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Premisses, that the Conclusion would be

= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "Some, against whom the verdict 'guilt= y' was returned,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0were sentenced to= hard labour".

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 But this Conclusion is not even _t= rue_, with regard to the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Assizes I have here invented.
=

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