From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ian Grant Newsgroups: gmane.comp.gnu.lightning.general,gmane.lisp.guile.devel Subject: Re: Reinterpreting the compiler source code Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 22:23:41 -0400 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8068380725316664222==" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1409883834 16128 80.91.229.3 (5 Sep 2014 02:23:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 02:23:54 +0000 (UTC) To: Richard Stallman , guile-devel-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org, Theo deRaadt , Markus Kuhn , lightning , Linus Torvalds Original-X-From: lightning-bounces+gcglg-lightning=m.gmane.org-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org Fri Sep 05 04:23:49 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: gcglg-lightning@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XPjBk-0007OM-LX for gcglg-lightning@m.gmane.org; Fri, 05 Sep 2014 04:23:48 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55110 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XPjBk-00055Q-0J for gcglg-lightning@m.gmane.org; Thu, 04 Sep 2014 22:23:48 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:54205) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XPjBg-000558-Me for lightning-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org; Thu, 04 Sep 2014 22:23:46 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XPjBf-00056l-Do for lightning-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org; Thu, 04 Sep 2014 22:23:44 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-we0-x232.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c03::232]:50784) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XPjBf-00056g-0s; Thu, 04 Sep 2014 22:23:43 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-we0-f178.google.com with SMTP id u57so10995086wes.23 for ; Thu, 04 Sep 2014 19:23:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=KBxNc7VJPUOTvZTFFjn5lzMaSDpv/ccQsGb4Rp+4Xg0=; b=vTLVLMt3tLC+0cezIM+lViENBwqW7f2DdQWdco0MQonFkc7CMh6mq2MQAIBM2EVimN vBkTKhWl/V5Ijkv+as6PZwBq8Ja9IDASfJXYTwfN9u8c3Rf9i7jvDVEgWlGvdD1trAMl qSplYm+rp84i0oRUxBKvyuH9A+j2wAGnA+iUW0lnGZBpWjrvozqRgDL6rPnFMmNeG0Nb JoNE2DIBU+I8g5/SiSOKONd1FCxfe0RHRFg4Sr/yY8+kdH/c7LINMgVKk5x2+X1NJEXk qfOCRxe+3J0VoAsCXqPjekOKk0p0jVNQOvchWPkOrzFuglzEysrDLmK3h+ARswPc83Az LloQ== X-Received: by 10.180.149.197 with SMTP id uc5mr3414wib.75.1409883821351; Thu, 04 Sep 2014 19:23:41 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.194.219.234 with HTTP; Thu, 4 Sep 2014 19:23:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:400c:c03::232 X-BeenThere: lightning-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: lightning-bounces+gcglg-lightning=m.gmane.org-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org Original-Sender: lightning-bounces+gcglg-lightning=m.gmane.org-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.gnu.lightning.general:571 gmane.lisp.guile.devel:17410 Archived-At: --===============8068380725316664222== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c3811458a7ae05024828ca --001a11c3811458a7ae05024828ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Well, I don't know Prolog either, which is why I typed in that code. I don't know about available funding either, I have been trying for over two years now to get people interested in this, and I ran out of financial resources a while ago. I have been living by extorting money from my friends and family. It's not an ideal lifestyle, but I don't know what else I can do. There was some money in the Linux Foundation after that Bleeding Heart fiasco, and I thought perhaps we could go to them and say: "This is just treating the symptoms, not curing the disease. We would do better to cure the disease, so why don't you give us just 10% of what you would have spent, and see if we can't do 90% of the work." But if you're only interested in treating the symptoms too, then you are competing directly with the OpenSSL people, and I'm not sure how much better you will fare. I'm really tired now, and I will try and reply more constructively tomorrow. Ian On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 9:51 PM, Richard Stallman wrote: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > I don't know prolog, and even if I did, reading so much code would > take a lot of time. I don't see a point, because all that example can > prove is that some subtle of sabotage is _possible_. I'd rather just > agree that it is possible. (I already did.) > > I think our community's distributed build practices would make it > difficult for such a sabotage to hit the whole community. Many GCC > developers and redistributors have been bootstrapping for decades > using their old versions. > > However, this suggests to me a way of investigating whether such > sabotage is present in our tools. It would be much less work than > replacing the system with new "simple" software, but it would be > a substantial job. I think it would need funding. I don't know > how to get such funding, but maybe someone else does. > > -- > Dr Richard Stallman > President, Free Software Foundation > 51 Franklin St > Boston MA 02110 > USA > www.fsf.org www.gnu.org > Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software. > Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call. > > --001a11c3811458a7ae05024828ca Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Well, I don't know Prolog either, which= is why I typed in that code. I don't know about available funding eith= er, I have been trying for over two years now to get people interested in t= his, and I ran out of financial resources a while ago. I have been living b= y extorting money from my friends and family. It's not an ideal lifesty= le, but I don't know what else I can do.

There was some mo= ney in the Linux Foundation after that Bleeding Heart fiasco, and I thought= perhaps we could go to them and say: "This is just treating=C2=A0 the= symptoms, not curing the disease. We would do better to cure the disease, = so why don't you give us just 10% of what you would have spent, and see= if we can't do 90% of the work." But if you're only intereste= d in treating the symptoms too, then you are competing directly with the Op= enSSL people, and I'm not sure how much better you will fare.

I'm really tired now, and I will try and reply more constructively = tomorrow.

Ian



=


On Thu,= Sep 4, 2014 at 9:51 PM, Richard Stallman <rms-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org> wrote:
=
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my ema= il: please consider=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,=C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]<= br>
I don't know prolog, and even if I did, reading so much code would
take a lot of time.=C2=A0 I don't see a point, because all that example= can
prove is that some subtle of sabotage is _possible_.=C2=A0 I'd rather j= ust
agree that it is possible.=C2=A0 (I already did.)

I think our community's distributed build practices would make it
difficult for such a sabotage to hit the whole community.=C2=A0 Many GCC developers and redistributors have been bootstrapping for decades
using their old versions.

However, this suggests to me a way of investigating whether such
sabotage is present in our tools.=C2=A0 It would be much less work than
replacing the system with new "simple" software, but it would be<= br> a substantial job.=C2=A0 I think it would need funding.=C2=A0 I don't k= now
how to get such funding, but maybe someone else does.

--
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation
51 Franklin St
Boston MA 02110
USA
www.fsf.org=C2=A0 www.gnu.org
Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software.
=C2=A0 Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call.


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