> Hi, > > Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide schreef op za 11-12-2021 om 16:12 [+0100]: > >/+ (p "To contribute small improvements, please send patches to/ > >/"/ > >/+ (a (@ (href "mailto:guile-devel@gnu.org" > <mailto:guile-devel@gnu.org">;))/ > >/"guile-devel@gnu.org")/ > >/+ ".")/ > > What about contributing _large_ improvements? > Where should patches for large improvements go? > > >/+ (p "For larger changes, please discuss them first in the "/ > >/+ (a (@ (href "https://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/guile->/ > devel/")) "development mailing list") > > What if I tried to discuss them, but nobody answered? > (https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=46258) > (Not 100% accurate though, because I discussed the interface on IRC a > bit IIRC? I can't find it in the logs anymore though.) > > What if, I then proceed with writing the patches, and nobody responds > with some points to work on or applies it? > (https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guile-devel/2021-03/msg00026.html) > (The only response is a +1-style response.) > > What if, eight months later, I send a simplified patch series, with > things made more consistent, and with much more tests, and this time, > there is exactly one response, with a minor point that is quickly > addressed > (https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guile-devel/2021-11/msg00019.html), > but the patches aren't applied? > > There have been many commits and two releases since the first patch > series > (https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guile.git/log/?id=653cc0bf953a11432f77ade9c007848e947cc430&qt=range&q=653cc0bf953a11432f77ade9c007848e947cc430..HEAD&ofs=100 <https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guile.git/log/?id=653cc0bf953a11432f77ade9c007848e947cc430&qt=range&q=653cc0bf953a11432f77ade9c007848e947cc430..HEAD&ofs=100>) > , without any signs that it will actually ever be applied. > > So I guess what I'm trying to say, is that while your patch documenting > how to contribute seems reasonable to me, it has been very inaccurate > for me in practice (not your fault!). > > Greetings, > Maxime I concur with this concern. The patch https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guile-devel/2021-07/msg00000.html has been proposed five months ago and after several pings still only saw responses from Maxime. It comes from a LilyPond developer trying to fix issues relevant for LilyPond. https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=16364#19 is a patch allowing to silence the auto-compilation logging, which is also somewhat relevant to our use case. It has not seen any reaction. I see a number of similar cases on the mailing list. I understand the cost of reviewing and I know that nobody is entitled to anything in the free software world. However, I would like to voice the concern that Guile's maintenance is not scaling, and the project cannot attract new contributors if patches do not make it to the main branch. If the current maintainers need to drop their activity, it would be nice if they could share maintainership so that at least bug fixes can be applied. (NB: Sending this as myself, _not_ after any sort of discussion at LilyPond.) Thank you for your consideration, Jean Abou Samra
Le 13/12/2021 à 23:18, Jean Abou Samra a écrit :
> I understand the cost of reviewing and I know that
> nobody is entitled to anything in the free software
> world.
Sorry, this is me non-native-speaker mixing up
terms. I meant _obligated_, of course!
Jean
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 652 bytes --] Jean Abou Samra <jean@abou-samra.fr> writes: > make it to the main branch. If the current maintainers > need to drop their activity, it would be nice if > they could share maintainership so that at least > bug fixes can be applied. I got the requirements for copyright assignment in place two weeks ago, so I could offer to apply obviously good patches. I’ll need push-permission for that, though. I just filed a request for inclusion to the savannah project for that: https://savannah.gnu.org/project/memberlist.php?group=guile Best wishes, Arne -- Unpolitisch sein heißt politisch sein, ohne es zu merken. draketo.de [-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 1125 bytes --]
Hello Guilers,
Jean Abou Samra <jean@abou-samra.fr> skribis:
> I see a number of similar cases on the mailing list.
>
> I understand the cost of reviewing and I know that
> nobody is entitled to anything in the free software
> world. However, I would like to voice the concern that
> Guile's maintenance is not scaling, and the project
> cannot attract new contributors if patches do not
> make it to the main branch. If the current maintainers
> need to drop their activity, it would be nice if
> they could share maintainership so that at least
> bug fixes can be applied.
I agree and I apologize for the unpleasant situation: it’s clear that I
haven’t been up to the task for several years already. I’ll discuss
with Andy how I can formally leave the seat to someone with more energy,
whom I’ll be happy to help learn practices and conventions.
If someone is interested, please get in touch with us!
While Andy focuses on major improvements to the compiler and VM with a
long-term vision, I think it would be great to also have people on the
maintainer team focusing on more day-to-day operations: incremental
improvements, bug fixes, etc. I think we’re lucky that there’ve been a
number of talented contributors chiming in over the last couple of
years; let’s take advantage of this, at last!
Thanks,
Ludo’.
On 15.12.2021 11:20, Ludovic Courtès wrote:
>
> While Andy focuses on major improvements to the compiler and VM with a
> long-term vision, I think it would be great to also have people on the
> maintainer team focusing on more day-to-day operations: incremental
> improvements, bug fixes, etc. I think we’re lucky that there’ve been a
> number of talented contributors chiming in over the last couple of
> years; let’s take advantage of this, at last!
>
Sounds like a good idea. Andy obviously does amazing work and I'm sure
I'm not the only one who's grateful for your contributions as well :-)
but having even some small patches for obvious bugfixes sit around for
months is a bit disheartening.
I won't apply because I don't feel like I'd be up to the task on a
technical level (my C skills in particular suck, my knowledge of Guile
internals is also quite limited) and I have way too many unfinished
projects plus a somewhat stressful 40h/week job...
But I would definitely like to contribute some small patches every now
and then if I know I'll get feedback / have them applied.
--
Taylan
On Thu, 16 Dec 2021, Taylan Kammer <taylan.kammer@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 15.12.2021 11:20, Ludovic Courtès wrote:
> I won't apply because I don't feel like I'd be up to the task on a
> technical level (my C skills in particular suck, my knowledge of Guile
> internals is also quite limited) and I have way too many unfinished
> projects plus a somewhat stressful 40h/week job...
>
> But I would definitely like to contribute some small patches every now
> and then if I know I'll get feedback / have them applied.
I would also like to contribute in some meaningful way. In what way
someone with none wizard knowledge of Scheme can contribute the most to the
project?
--
Olivier Dion
Polymtl
I am in the same boat as Taylan and Olivier. My knowledge isn't up to
snuff to be a full fledged maintainer, but I would love to contribute
more.
I'm able to give 5-10 hours per week to whatever tasks we need to keep
things running smoothly.
On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 9:19 AM Olivier Dion via Developers list for
Guile, the GNU extensibility library <guile-devel@gnu.org> wrote:
>
> On Thu, 16 Dec 2021, Taylan Kammer <taylan.kammer@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 15.12.2021 11:20, Ludovic Courtès wrote:
> > I won't apply because I don't feel like I'd be up to the task on a
> > technical level (my C skills in particular suck, my knowledge of Guile
> > internals is also quite limited) and I have way too many unfinished
> > projects plus a somewhat stressful 40h/week job...
> >
> > But I would definitely like to contribute some small patches every now
> > and then if I know I'll get feedback / have them applied.
>
> I would also like to contribute in some meaningful way. In what way
> someone with none wizard knowledge of Scheme can contribute the most to the
> project?
>
> --
> Olivier Dion
> Polymtl
>
Hi,
Olivier Dion <olivier.dion@polymtl.ca> skribis:
> I would also like to contribute in some meaningful way. In what way
> someone with none wizard knowledge of Scheme can contribute the most to the
> project?
Triage of bugs and patches is always welcome I guess, and communicating
what needs to be applied/addressed first to whoever can actually commit
it. That’s one possible way to help.
Thanks,
Ludo’.
On Fri, 17 Dec 2021, Ludovic Courtès <ludo@gnu.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Olivier Dion <olivier.dion@polymtl.ca> skribis:
>
>> I would also like to contribute in some meaningful way. In what way
>> someone with none wizard knowledge of Scheme can contribute the most to the
>> project?
>
> Triage of bugs and patches is always welcome I guess, and communicating
> what needs to be applied/addressed first to whoever can actually commit
> it. That’s one possible way to help.
Where can this be done? I know that Guix is using debbugs, but do Guile
does the same or is it all tracked on Savannah?
Also, any way to help on the C side?
--
Olivier Dion
Polymtl
On 17.12.2021 16:48, Olivier Dion wrote: > On Fri, 17 Dec 2021, Ludovic Courtès <ludo@gnu.org> wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Olivier Dion <olivier.dion@polymtl.ca> skribis: >> >>> I would also like to contribute in some meaningful way. In what way >>> someone with none wizard knowledge of Scheme can contribute the most to the >>> project? >> >> Triage of bugs and patches is always welcome I guess, and communicating >> what needs to be applied/addressed first to whoever can actually commit >> it. That’s one possible way to help. > > Where can this be done? I know that Guix is using debbugs, but do Guile > does the same or is it all tracked on Savannah? > > Also, any way to help on the C side? > Guile also uses Debbugs: https://bugs.gnu.org/guile -- Taylan
Hi, Olivier Dion <olivier.dion@polymtl.ca> skribis: > On Fri, 17 Dec 2021, Ludovic Courtès <ludo@gnu.org> wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Olivier Dion <olivier.dion@polymtl.ca> skribis: >> >>> I would also like to contribute in some meaningful way. In what way >>> someone with none wizard knowledge of Scheme can contribute the most to the >>> project? >> >> Triage of bugs and patches is always welcome I guess, and communicating >> what needs to be applied/addressed first to whoever can actually commit >> it. That’s one possible way to help. > > Where can this be done? I know that Guix is using debbugs, but do Guile > does the same or is it all tracked on Savannah? It’s happening on debbugs.gnu.org as well. Debbugs this is easier to work with via Emacs debbugs.el, which is nice if you already use Emacs but otherwise unfortunate. > Also, any way to help on the C side? There isn’t much happening on the C side. Maxime Devos submitted patches adding bindings for openat(2) and friends that are unfortunately still pending review. Patches that add POSIX bindings and similar to libguile should in general be relatively easy to review (though the openat(2) one may be trickier because it’s a central functionality and we’d rather get the interface right.) Thanks, Ludo’.
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 792 bytes --] Il giorno mar 14 dic 2021 alle ore 04:55 Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide < arne_bab@web.de> ha scritto: > > Jean Abou Samra <jean@abou-samra.fr> writes: > > > make it to the main branch. If the current maintainers > > need to drop their activity, it would be nice if > > they could share maintainership so that at least > > bug fixes can be applied. > > I got the requirements for copyright assignment in place two weeks ago, > so I could offer to apply obviously good patches. > > I’ll need push-permission for that, though. > > I just filed a request for inclusion to the savannah project for that: > https://savannah.gnu.org/project/memberlist.php?group=guile You wrote this on Decembre 14th and now it's february 11th and I still don't see you in the list of members [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1331 bytes --]
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1759 bytes --] I'm not sure how all this ended up. But, I would encourage and love for Maxime Devos to be a Guile maintainer. Always great feedback in Guile and other projects (like Fibers) and I really feel Guile would benefit a lot from their contributions. Just a thought. Aleix On Tue, Dec 21, 2021 at 6:27 AM Ludovic Courtès <ludo@gnu.org> wrote: > Hi, > > Olivier Dion <olivier.dion@polymtl.ca> skribis: > > > On Fri, 17 Dec 2021, Ludovic Courtès <ludo@gnu.org> wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> Olivier Dion <olivier.dion@polymtl.ca> skribis: > >> > >>> I would also like to contribute in some meaningful way. In what way > >>> someone with none wizard knowledge of Scheme can contribute the most > to the > >>> project? > >> > >> Triage of bugs and patches is always welcome I guess, and communicating > >> what needs to be applied/addressed first to whoever can actually commit > >> it. That’s one possible way to help. > > > > Where can this be done? I know that Guix is using debbugs, but do Guile > > does the same or is it all tracked on Savannah? > > It’s happening on debbugs.gnu.org as well. Debbugs this is easier to > work with via Emacs debbugs.el, which is nice if you already use Emacs > but otherwise unfortunate. > > > Also, any way to help on the C side? > > There isn’t much happening on the C side. Maxime Devos submitted > patches adding bindings for openat(2) and friends that are unfortunately > still pending review. > > Patches that add POSIX bindings and similar to libguile should in > general be relatively easy to review (though the openat(2) one may be > trickier because it’s a central functionality and we’d rather get the > interface right.) > > Thanks, > Ludo’. > > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 3123 bytes --]
Hi, On ven., 17 déc. 2021 at 10:48, Olivier Dion via "Developers list for Guile, the GNU extensibility library" <guile-devel@gnu.org> wrote: > Where can this be done? I know that Guix is using debbugs, but do Guile > does the same or is it all tracked on Savannah? Just to mention that Mumi (a web frontend of Debbugs) is serving all GNU bugs or patches managed by Debbugs. For one example about Guile, <http://issues.guix.gnu.org/issue/56665> Therefore, it could be a drop-in replacement of <http://bugs.gnu.org/56665> (the venerable Debbugs frontend). Well, Mumi is written in Guile, so maybe the Guile community could help to improve the situation for the whole GNU community using the GNU instance of Debbugs. https://git.elephly.net/software/mumi.git Cheers, simon
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1381 bytes --] Considering this conversation is coming back, I'd mention that I'd be happy to become a Guile "janitor" (as discussed earlier) with some guidance, as I've only been using Guile for a year and still learning the internals, but have some patch series fixing some old bugs I've found. I could also help with efforts like getting Guile's bug tracker to use Mumi, and cleaning up various cobwebs -- noble & necessary custodial work :) On Sat, Aug 20, 2022, 01:46 zimoun <zimon.toutoune@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > > On ven., 17 déc. 2021 at 10:48, Olivier Dion via "Developers list for > Guile, the GNU extensibility library" <guile-devel@gnu.org> wrote: > > > Where can this be done? I know that Guix is using debbugs, but do Guile > > does the same or is it all tracked on Savannah? > > Just to mention that Mumi (a web frontend of Debbugs) is serving all GNU > bugs or patches managed by Debbugs. For one example about Guile, > > <http://issues.guix.gnu.org/issue/56665> > > Therefore, it could be a drop-in replacement of > <http://bugs.gnu.org/56665> (the venerable Debbugs frontend). > > > Well, Mumi is written in Guile, so maybe the Guile community could help > to improve the situation for the whole GNU community using the GNU > instance of Debbugs. > > https://git.elephly.net/software/mumi.git > > > Cheers, > simon > > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2294 bytes --]