From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Chad Albers Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.devel Subject: Re: Towards De-icing ice-9 modules. Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2016 17:09:45 -0500 Message-ID: References: <87wpq9tyo5.fsf@netris.org> <87k2m9twvn.fsf@netris.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113d391cbe2250052b99ecb0 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1455314994 14486 80.91.229.3 (12 Feb 2016 22:09:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2016 22:09:54 +0000 (UTC) Cc: guile-devel@gnu.org To: Mark H Weaver Original-X-From: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Feb 12 23:09:54 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aULuS-0003YW-EI for guile-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2016 23:09:52 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36686 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aULuR-0003cy-Hs for guile-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2016 17:09:51 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:47238) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aULuN-0003cr-Uk for guile-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2016 17:09:49 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aULuM-0007H4-Hd for guile-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2016 17:09:47 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-vk0-x233.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400c:c05::233]:33008) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aULuM-0007GX-8i for guile-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2016 17:09:46 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-vk0-x233.google.com with SMTP id k196so71372896vka.0 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2016 14:09:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=neomantic-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=7+Am8HTdEDyvePREbTwcaX2VNoBGB6Mpz080if/WCxg=; b=DbpCUMik2sQQSy6PdwpUkw3NvX8GVO7wJ7F2DrfzLo/uAINHaS3saXE5YHfZTBzcFZ HKZmLjNFtDzn29Kn41X54s1hh4HuMXCd6IZsEVkzEBlXOx3x6R4SYeoLa/kUbZNsBUNZ Oh48Ooz6GdbPC+7UCcgGo9S3IaaUBMDOcyM5K8iB0/yV2tcLTpddRFB4e/9ooGB5DmKa liQzfvZvAgKrbwa6lEyZ3vp/XxH9cKuJ83JgHjg0TR/cViteu71AzPQHrVVA56IEtzLu nswSsEphMqNbrjJBhytdvMvN8P33L47LkqvaBVjcWu5yI/L1M/vb5pPBzc+0Q8gogjqV 8kQA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=7+Am8HTdEDyvePREbTwcaX2VNoBGB6Mpz080if/WCxg=; b=S0NBBv47PiSqJiHWa9JeXRKLOnYMcknQCc67jMsQPR0dM4Xr54WgiX1Q/nS8AM14rD xy7IQCYuc4FNWwpCqkHbPzJNL6acUrm7AruOeheS8DhcNO6rx/J9peUtx0UnIJzCb9Zf qxln50wBkx8xGhp9PU9+SSjZLnhU3r+WELfPTq/SBQwtXUWVwM4B1Va0TneQrWhm68fM mBoGY/1WoeuC7lntQZuvQfr0hL6xojr4j/iEGbpoH9cR9d9RTZEGT2Fkk8SQXWkX136q UvXUsDbYkGSWhkuskvIG44Ewt9HBJpJ10S0HrfEzWj8kj5PajV2DpGTPllm8LNO3oba+ LG7A== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YORSHHdJp76YlUrTLL1Ksb1NiM57J04vHwrc0z4yOnEHL2g4e3EOOqmii/JupQuLLMbYTWq5L5GLFFvbFw== X-Received: by 10.31.155.131 with SMTP id d125mr3085763vke.146.1455314985408; Fri, 12 Feb 2016 14:09:45 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.31.164.80 with HTTP; Fri, 12 Feb 2016 14:09:45 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87k2m9twvn.fsf@netris.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400c:c05::233 X-BeenThere: guile-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Developers list for Guile, the GNU extensibility library" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.lisp.guile.devel:18174 Archived-At: --001a113d391cbe2250052b99ecb0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Mark, That totally make sense. I understand. As it stands now, the document will need to be reformatted. Can be attached to a email to the mailing list, and still be archived? Or should I paste it inline? Chad -- Chad Albers On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 4:57 PM, Mark H Weaver wrote: > Chad Albers writes: > > > On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 4:18 PM, Mark H Weaver wrote: > > > > > > I would thank you for this, but I cannot even view it without running > > nonfree software on my machine. Posting this link essentially puts > > pressure on those who wish to have a voice in this discussion to use > > nonfree software, and excludes those who take a principled stand against > > using nonfree software. That's not good. > > > > > (I apologize that it's a google document. I couldn't find a > > > comparable,free software online collaborative alternative. suggestions > > > are welcome). > > > > We must not collaborate on a platform where using nonfree software is a > > prerequisite for entry. > > > > Can you please send it in email as plain text? > > > > > > I adamantly agree with your sentiments. The ideal solution in my > > opinion would be a wikipage, so people could comment. Does anyone have > > access to one that we all could also read, without having to create a > > user-account (bonus points)? > > Another issue is that it would be good for this discussion, as well as > the drafts of your proposal, counterproposals, etc, to be archived > somewhere that we can be reasonably confident will still exist and be > easy to find in 20 years or more. > > If we use a collaborative document editor implemented in Javascript, > then participants in the discussion will have no good choice but to use > that one centralized tool to edit the proposal, write comments, etc, and > I'm doubtful that the history of edits, draft proposals and discussion > will be easily reviewable in 20 years. > > We have a long history of making proposals, revising them, and > discussing them here on the mailing list in plain text. This not only > ensures that all of the relevant information is archived, but also > allows people to use their preferred email client and text editor to > modify the proposals and respond to them. > > Does that make sense? > > Thanks, > Mark > --001a113d391cbe2250052b99ecb0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mark,

That totally make sense.=C2=A0 I = understand.

As it stands now, the document will ne= ed to be reformatted.=C2=A0 Can be attached to a email to the mailing list,= and still be archived? Or should I paste it inline?

Chad

--
Chad Albers

On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 4:57 PM, Mark H Weav= er <mhw@netris.org> wrote:
Chad Albers <cal= bers@neomantic.com> writes:

> On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 4:18 PM, Mark H Weaver <mhw@netris.org> wrote:
>
>
>=C2=A0 I would thank you for this, but I cannot even view it without ru= nning
>=C2=A0 nonfree software on my machine. Posting this link essentially pu= ts
>=C2=A0 pressure on those who wish to have a voice in this discussion to= use
>=C2=A0 nonfree software, and excludes those who take a principled stand= against
>=C2=A0 using nonfree software. That's not good.
>
>=C2=A0 > (I apologize that it's a google document. I couldn'= t find a
>=C2=A0 > comparable,free software online collaborative alternative. = suggestions
>=C2=A0 > are welcome).
>
>=C2=A0 We must not collaborate on a platform where using nonfree softwa= re is a
>=C2=A0 prerequisite for entry.
>
>=C2=A0 Can you please send it in email as plain text?
>
>
> I adamantly agree with your sentiments. The ideal solution in my
> opinion would be a wikipage, so people could comment. Does anyone have=
> access to one that we all could also read, without having to create a<= br> > user-account (bonus points)?

Another issue is that it would be good for this discussion, as well = as
the drafts of your proposal, counterproposals, etc, to be archived
somewhere that we can be reasonably confident will still exist and be
easy to find in 20 years or more.

If we use a collaborative document editor implemented in Javascript,
then participants in the discussion will have no good choice but to use
that one centralized tool to edit the proposal, write comments, etc, and I'm doubtful that the history of edits, draft proposals and discussion<= br> will be easily reviewable in 20 years.

We have a long history of making proposals, revising them, and
discussing them here on the mailing list in plain text.=C2=A0 This not only=
ensures that all of the relevant information is archived, but also
allows people to use their preferred email client and text editor to
modify the proposals and respond to them.

Does that make sense?

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thanks,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Mark

--001a113d391cbe2250052b99ecb0--