From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean Abou Samra Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.devel Subject: Maintenance and future of Guile (was: [patch] Add instructions for sending patches) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2021 23:18:44 +0100 Message-ID: <979585e9-c198-69f3-928f-7c00cda5d705@abou-samra.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="12457"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.3.1 Cc: wingo@pobox.com, ludo@gnu.org, Jonas Hahnfeld To: guile-devel@gnu.org, maximedevos@telenet.be, arne_bab@web.de Original-X-From: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Dec 13 23:19:23 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mwtfG-00031Q-7F for guile-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 13 Dec 2021 23:19:22 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42262 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mwtfE-0007sa-QT for guile-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 13 Dec 2021 17:19:20 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:54098) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mwtew-0007sR-Ff for guile-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 13 Dec 2021 17:19:02 -0500 Original-Received: from mout.kundenserver.de ([217.72.192.75]:47249) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mwteu-0007if-4o; Mon, 13 Dec 2021 17:19:02 -0500 Original-Received: from [10.188.216.67] ([46.193.67.184]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue107 [212.227.15.184]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1Mhl4Q-1mJB7n0GQ4-00dnv3; Mon, 13 Dec 2021 23:18:47 +0100 Content-Language: en-US X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:xwRSRULm85DWaoPdqXMK74l9QrQfb0XDwp9jPoRdrRXO6rEvznf l1Z1JZ683W8SWyzC3vvbV65WhAWOnAs83GGVsWHR7XLe1JT4kTBGTHoJ0gOEyHbgoHXnRVF vbAnGA8/ISjcBf5Faf/xNxDGby8CWIeyVXSi0G0I7OB2zNsPznGberhLi4FjSVCPI5o5+7o +dh+aiNS+O1Z+De3tgE7A== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:N2aOCqSVDzc=:YIt3WbVI3rmhU1vjEHYJgl TbCvbsMoqAmjzGK0FG2kr0Fnard+9Sdgl0V/BHbTqgShWv0xQUg8JcIj0PdqB0ZOfIaDAilhW RkifB7Tg3cIAh3P5ttQAcwFGBYw5C+0QEefhPIw86J2wLf6SMEXvg5TDqcMJkn1MyVcuDmRUx ORF1QDgb6ptrL8wLSYy08KIKtzeU1f3iR7QvFOM5EaQRb0imW2RGer+ZlZ51FlEe9KozQlxiQ kkUe061dMX/0+1/sy3PWr9MQPgH49CfccN+FFB9k8tjFzaeRMqRfMvahoyc4Oo3whIlEA2gCB +8vcZ30w/KN383CLefSiDT5S3stEIGfPKSg5m89ykjvMjB2DlRLT5A2eLg+XxCeLfFdJBOn1R JuWbkbQ7OpoQf27PVhljjjLQ6zoEa6bCtZTLh/eIM/2TNjo0mEKCwT+JGEC1iyhNb+5nOMreG FthLHPK8Rz/GavcHLf+5v8ZvYzcUTeIi1//lPA+RYxI8PS5WlOmCpayoTJBJgyyJIBkJc1Kpo AmEJI+7mz0Zpz/qqAUvXNT/3OPbnfZmpkiuMk0xrL0bPkU+gSXDhUlCf17BNABtb6kfBEeB7G Cx8rTvYqrRmDhPqg0794Ma1ikrgoMasJVOAayhubN7gDaKARVnx7db3n9leggojnnB3RzgWvR 3KusTao51lcOFohBnNb0BL5bEysi4AV1k/pESg7A9kKFd/ZFhkIag32TLw7c3xVMC6vA= Received-SPF: none client-ip=217.72.192.75; envelope-from=jean@abou-samra.fr; helo=mout.kundenserver.de X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guile-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Developers list for Guile, the GNU extensibility library" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "guile-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.lisp.guile.devel:21000 Archived-At: > Hi, > > Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide schreef op za 11-12-2021 om 16:12 [+0100]: > >/+ (p "To contribute small improvements, please send patches to/ > >/"/ > >/+    (a (@ (href "mailto:guile-devel@gnu.org" > ;))/ > >/"guile-devel@gnu.org")/ > >/+       ".")/ > > What about contributing _large_ improvements? > Where should patches for large improvements go? > > >/+ (p "For larger changes, please discuss them first in the "/ > >/+ (a (@ (href "https://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/guile->/ > devel/")) "development mailing list") > > What if I tried to discuss them, but nobody answered? > (https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=46258) > (Not 100% accurate though, because I discussed the interface on IRC a > bit IIRC? I can't find it in the logs anymore though.) > > What if, I then proceed with writing the patches, and nobody responds > with some points to work on or applies it? > (https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guile-devel/2021-03/msg00026.html) > (The only response is a +1-style response.) > > What if, eight months later, I send a simplified patch series, with > things made more consistent, and with much more tests, and this time, > there is exactly one response, with a minor point that is quickly > addressed > (https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guile-devel/2021-11/msg00019.html), > but the patches aren't applied? > > There have been many commits and two releases since the first patch > series > (https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guile.git/log/?id=653cc0bf953a11432f77ade9c007848e947cc430&qt=range&q=653cc0bf953a11432f77ade9c007848e947cc430..HEAD&ofs=100 ) > , without any signs that it will actually ever be applied. > > So I guess what I'm trying to say, is that while your patch documenting > how to contribute seems reasonable to me, it has been very inaccurate > for me in practice (not your fault!). > > Greetings, > Maxime I concur with this concern. The patch https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guile-devel/2021-07/msg00000.html has been proposed five months ago and after several pings still only saw responses from Maxime. It comes from a LilyPond developer trying to fix issues relevant for LilyPond. https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=16364#19 is a patch allowing to silence the auto-compilation logging, which is also somewhat relevant to our use case. It has not seen any reaction. I see a number of similar cases on the mailing list. I understand the cost of reviewing and I know that nobody is entitled to anything in the free software world. However, I would like to voice the concern that Guile's maintenance is not scaling, and the project cannot attract new contributors if patches do not make it to the main branch. If the current maintainers need to drop their activity, it would be nice if they could share maintainership so that at least bug fixes can be applied. (NB: Sending this as myself, _not_ after any sort of discussion at LilyPond.) Thank you for your consideration, Jean Abou Samra