From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: tb@becket.net (Thomas Bushnell, BSG) Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.devel Subject: Re: i know -- let's play bridge! Date: 03 Aug 2002 20:04:24 -0700 Sender: guile-devel-admin@gnu.org Message-ID: <87sn1v729z.fsf@becket.becket.net> References: <200208040205.TAA14205@morrowfield.regexps.com> <200208040227.TAA14327@morrowfield.regexps.com> <200208040246.TAA14414@morrowfield.regexps.com> <87wur772x2.fsf@becket.becket.net> <200208040257.TAA14483@morrowfield.regexps.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1028430151 30357 127.0.0.1 (4 Aug 2002 03:02:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 03:02:31 +0000 (UTC) Cc: guile-devel@gnu.org Return-path: Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 17bBf2-0007tN-00 for ; Sun, 04 Aug 2002 05:02:29 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17bBfb-00010z-00; Sat, 03 Aug 2002 23:03:03 -0400 Original-Received: from vp190174.reshsg.uci.edu ([128.195.190.174] helo=becket.becket.net) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17bBf6-00010I-00 for ; Sat, 03 Aug 2002 23:02:32 -0400 Original-Received: from tb by becket.becket.net with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17bBgu-0005yQ-00; Sat, 03 Aug 2002 20:04:24 -0700 Original-To: Tom Lord X-Reply-Permission: Posted or emailed replies to this message constitute permission for an emailed response. X-PGP-Fingerprint: 1F0A1E51 63 28 EB DA E6 44 E5 5E EC F3 04 26 4E BF 1A 92 X-Windows: Sometimes you fill a vacuum and it still sucks. In-Reply-To: <200208040257.TAA14483@morrowfield.regexps.com> Original-Lines: 50 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.2 Errors-To: guile-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: guile-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Developers list for Guile, the GNU extensibility library List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.lisp.guile.devel:954 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.guile.devel:954 Bushnell (I) said: > Uh, that's fun? Remind me not to bother playing bridge with you. > Cheating is only fun for those who find the actual game too hard to > bother with. Tom Lord said: > Si! So maybe more comment is appropriate. I take as a basic of playing games that everyone knows the rules. So you could easily have two games: the game of contract bridge as generally known, and another, which Tom Lord claims to prefer, to see "who can cheat best". But in that latter game, of course, it's not cheating at all to signal to your partner what your heart suit is. Let's call these two "Real Bridge" (with limited information about your partner's hand) and "Tom Lord Bridge" (where you can develop whatever signalling method you like). Now Tom Lord Bridge has a curious property. If everyone is playing it, then the game rapidly becomes uninteresting. It becomes a matter of double-dummy bridge play. (Actually, it's a *tad* more interesting than that, but not by much.) This produces a game which is not quite as interesting as checkers. Why bother?! So why would Tom prefer the Tom Lord Bridge to Real Bridge, given that the former is less interesting than checkers? Because, I suspect, he doesn't want to play a game where everyone knows and agrees to the rules. I suspect he wants to play a game where there are common and agreed rules (the rules of Real Bridge will do), but in which Tom then proceeds to play as if the rules were different (say, Tom Lord Bridge). He survives in this game because of the goodwill or simple mistake of others who think he is willing to play by common agreed rules. Now if this were just about cards, then it would be silly and stupid. But it's bigger than that! It's not just bridge--substitute any common social enterprise for the word "Bridge" above, and the same division between "Real X" and "Tom Lord X" will appear, with the same notion that the best game is the one where you try and cheat as much as possible out of people who don't realize that there are two very different games going on simultaneously. Tom, will you please tell us which rules you want to play by? I'll play just about any game you choose, but you seem to want to refuse to play by *any* agreed rules! Thomas _______________________________________________ Guile-devel mailing list Guile-devel@gnu.org http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/guile-devel