From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Taylan Ulrich Bayirli/Kammer Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.devel Subject: Re: A comprehensible introduction to Ian Grant's ideas Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2014 14:32:49 +0200 Message-ID: <87r3yokob2.fsf@taylan.uni.cx> References: <87fvf4fl9p.fsf@netris.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1412428172 29880 80.91.229.3 (4 Oct 2014 13:09:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2014 13:09:32 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Ian Grant , guile-devel@gnu.org To: Mark H Weaver Original-X-From: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 04 15:09:27 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XaP4k-0004AU-IU for guile-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 04 Oct 2014 15:08:42 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43566 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XaOW8-0007XD-Tr for guile-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 04 Oct 2014 08:32:56 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:41690) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XaOW6-0007Wx-EC for guile-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Oct 2014 08:32:55 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XaOW4-00054d-LM for guile-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Oct 2014 08:32:54 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-la0-x234.google.com ([2a00:1450:4010:c03::234]:52564) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XaOW4-00054T-E6 for guile-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Oct 2014 08:32:52 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-la0-f52.google.com with SMTP id hz20so2304272lab.25 for ; Sat, 04 Oct 2014 05:32:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=6bZgTHu94gNQEiYEVsXyTCCaM74r6qQ/XN1cOc85YkM=; b=ZkLlJi0kDs6m1gr7QCJtQLQDY4aprIArTxzYjEv6I+c4nh1bZhMQte73PXzigOBa5P NR7w8BVn3h43wB2+SY8eQxlwauInrygNY6e3lLen8j/99Lji8u3igFTjI2a8s8+siZDW ZC+RTruCovyLW+bLJ9ogv9XTTPyGAEBCzLnM2MrqM8QsFX2AWVbPUWJ5sy/qdC6tNJac w/3vVNcO07W7NLlXoXWr4qR/zchaDW1GOctR1g36TwQPzpBqDwRR7+nf1kiCuvlXUi7x JIymNDAac3rq2/yDBbalMVSteOX8eELc8q3YFq0elilU5K9wBT3GlTN3N8eOyz7bz8a6 pKIg== X-Received: by 10.152.22.100 with SMTP id c4mr12490631laf.0.1412425971215; Sat, 04 Oct 2014 05:32:51 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from taylan.uni.cx (p200300514A34D5920213E8FFFEED36FB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [2003:51:4a34:d592:213:e8ff:feed:36fb]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id j3sm3692316lbs.0.2014.10.04.05.32.50 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 04 Oct 2014 05:32:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87fvf4fl9p.fsf@netris.org> (Mark H. Weaver's message of "Sat, 04 Oct 2014 01:37:22 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4010:c03::234 X-BeenThere: guile-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Developers list for Guile, the GNU extensibility library" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.lisp.guile.devel:17538 Archived-At: Mark H Weaver writes: > Ian, you are a _terrible_ communicator. IMO, your biggest problems are: > > 1. You present your ideas in a far too abstract way, making it hard for > those of us who haven't already been long acquainted with your ideas > to begin to understand them. > 2. You write far too much, making it hard for us to find the few > writings of yours that might be able to get through our thick skulls. > 3. You insult us, making us predisposed to want to dismiss you. I'd like to say that I thoroughly agree. > However, I found a blog post of yours that I believe is a relatively > good introduction to your ideas. I suspect this is because it is a > response to Paul Koning, who had the effect of keeping your thoughts > organized, and less abstracted. > > * * * > > For those who would like to try to understand Ian's ideas, I would > recommend first reading this excellent interview with Edsger Dijkstra, > which Ian cites in his post: > > http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/misc/vanVlissingenInterview.html > > and then read Ian's response to Paul Koning: > > http://livelogic.blogspot.com/2014/09/the-free-fair-and-forged.html > > Best, > Mark Thanks! Of course thanks to Ian as well, for actually bringing up the ideas, even if in somewhat a headache inducing way. Taylan