From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.devel Subject: Re: The Guile junk drawer and a C plea Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2024 12:45:21 +0200 Message-ID: <87r0bsxpoe.fsf@web.de> References: <20240629002027.13853-1-richard@freakingpenguin.com> <87h6co21qv.fsf@laura> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="13220"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Mikael Djurfeldt , "Thompson, David" , Richard Sent , guile-devel To: Olivier Dion Original-X-From: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Jul 17 12:46:11 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sU2Ak-0003A4-0r for guile-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 17 Jul 2024 12:46:10 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sU2AM-0002v7-Cp; Wed, 17 Jul 2024 06:45:46 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sU2AJ-0002uQ-CB for guile-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Jul 2024 06:45:45 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.17.12]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sU2AG-0000aL-61 for guile-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Jul 2024 06:45:43 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=web.de; s=s29768273; t=1721213123; x=1721817923; i=arne_bab@web.de; bh=bHFD1E9O+e9E61WdSLPUJkdP2ry5DWGJGZUQsq93gYA=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date: Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:cc:content-transfer-encoding: content-type:date:from:message-id:mime-version:reply-to:subject: to; b=Q73d15bQexqfW7nsdBoTTy97iIMfOj/sDmg3ZWZz+mqqwC4SToLn1T0MRQJcybTF Anp9aG9s00x/FEHkHYSYvIq5ZAUNjj/Smo+LS0VSE1Jc4zNuSILsYV4JRzufZqX8z zK/pHWyrAhkYC4bB7Zy9ohKNlJ9eRgZF09GcRypK92Af3H3xbIheo+/um+qB/gzNZ VBBoffcuTB5SPzHXk0B+74y4u/doicphncHVJd0YxyfYvxma5/GiTVfYd+0hfTxea gqyd4rNnHlGUw43Uvda8zk9qjkEVq5oQGNPhTpQh91meH/dovaz9mghnRkEFao+IA Xzl1WmfMtJMXrb25YA== X-UI-Sender-Class: 814a7b36-bfc1-4dae-8640-3722d8ec6cd6 Original-Received: from fluss ([84.165.21.10]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb106 [213.165.67.124]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1N9LIc-1sFeWE3zbY-016uAm; Wed, 17 Jul 2024 12:45:23 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87h6co21qv.fsf@laura> (Olivier Dion's message of "Tue, 16 Jul 2024 22:25:44 -0400") X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:QbGBpdszI2rcrbprX7rzzt23NRNb1zVxOOJYaeN37w+jQdGxoD8 EZXSjX/maGO9onUkHTDnxq4K19sHfnxknSAg+Ht4ksQFt3za5yfR0nEUHrvSJghf1NgT2cf hNn2HlWqJoON79W3att0JVlvqSHU13fKVqwfy472gm2UUc7J3xYZvlkSfUBfWl0o78PcmrQ P5Z0nCqZR3FGlARGkK8jQ== UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:V2qflXVS5Ls=;ql6EwSPVczil9FdVdBtwVaDXVsN 6amkEVTmlqYC/9/Uc49XQuz+8+M8KMg53pB+xTTlrOpfTyhT1Pah86rMI6PoEg3rY8JEb5e16 7hrgNfzVZ0g5i5u0c6rZj1G1Qj2CDZ5KpDPFx+yy90zaYOOT3Mzt4e3XNC5k0UDkmUZkZ67KN 1YOcf7JU8Nu/eBhL1X/QC/zxYXXVklsYQ2M1r9++SMAey3BoGz/ynjulAJvmAKKF2Awu0bh+D 6ch5X7ZWXWD1A9ajvnmyit+KOVhG7OgH2x4jXmsQV1bVQ+uXJY7VpOfa7iPRfrgh4nrN24fea LnEBWCG31Id1F9RVRayPu9Z78OJlZU1jlBZNO1Oj64RF+I2Si05ig5q/c3UA4XXlzRVMjFdq5 QJ+MzV7m4lpakygDs7g1yDTD4C1jUZyBh71GCB/UPjPFNfjZ8+OTeqkU2YQfh5wNeqIfaCuPC +PB8Zv8q26+cnroB4kH8Ng1PZAnSHO0PgVeJ8uhjMx4zQoRD7uV9Oa4vFZY26sEs1m5eFlqNF Xm9FDBapOBRCupIn7kHEgO4Yk6ThSTqOBP/qvpSVfriAiarHutcwToTVIi0m6ScZKV1Yg8Nmt 3EVI0uqlRYwPNPG5uzvD7LwqqjCPv1v12/oqWvdq3S1vI4uYrGsV2j1Zelm1FBLqSmznNa/wo /ds1kh2azTcQN4guvoPUE8mYQ05g5gQzargzOgZ8G7qyZ5/uBThP1UliYevinNqeV92nH+lVn Q2GTc+EorlLpBSAd5YuIAWhXyU0tXQrlXe9jC8r0EVul60lIgJjD6ME1l47rf80cnXVSbAPQ Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.17.12; envelope-from=arne_bab@web.de; helo=mout.web.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guile-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Developers list for Guile, the GNU extensibility library" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.lisp.guile.devel:22575 Archived-At: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Olivier Dion writes: > On Sat, 29 Jun 2024, Mikael Djurfeldt wrote: > > [...] > >> As has been spoken about here previously, I suggest that we >> design a new module hierarchy, introduce aliases for module bindings, and >> still supply the old module hierarchy during a few years for backward >> compatibility. > > In the name of discoverability for new users, this must be done. > Aliasing (ice-9 *) to (guile *) for avoiding the "what's that none > standard ice-9 library?". I remember wondering about that exactly once; never forgot the name afterwards. As long as ice-9 is kept, I would not mind an alias, but as long as deprecation is on the table, I do object, because subsequent removal would break a lot of working code and working tutorials. Working code that needs no maintenance and would likely not receive any, so it would just get broken and stay broken, driving people away from Guile. > Also (srfi srfi-N) with something meaninful > for humans that don't want to lookup srfi.schemers.org or keep a > cheatsheet on their desk. e.g., (srfi srfi-1) =3D> (srfi list) or > something like that. SRFI already suggests optional names, but you can use any name: (import (srfi :1)) ;; works (import (srfi :1 lists)) ;; works (import (srfi :1 awesome-feature)) ;; also works, but maybe should warn Though this is not supported by use-modules (yet?): (use-modules (srfi srfi-1)) ;; works (use-modules (srfi srfi-1 lists)) ;; error (use-modules (srfi :1)) ;; error (use-modules (srfi :1 lists)) ;; error The correct step=E2=84=A2 there would be to validate the name used in import after the number against a list of accepted names. If we were to use (srfi list), this would break the possibility to have another srfi for lists (which is why SRFI does not do that). Best wishes, Arne =2D-=20 Unpolitisch sein hei=C3=9Ft politisch sein, ohne es zu merken. draketo.de --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQJEBAEBCAAuFiEE801qEjXQSQPNItXAE++NRSQDw+sFAmaXoMEQHGFybmVfYmFi QHdlYi5kZQAKCRAT741FJAPD61WID/0azhM1fjF8AvQVf5OHMKdghaHGof2wZ4UO zB/i9hCZXltjvFtthA/BmFSko84mzKN12P0MeGj+pRi+aHNR/4m0iEIVzqhFZYG4 Zo6pMQESpg5f1rDoiVi/EzAMddj4oE5GHsOyJvimSB/fswE+jwRYH3fd8kyVAGR9 37X2UrYZnpdpBmdhEwhmdnuCPqU5g0RFDGbXyBsaWEUjRWmOmwT3j95w5Z/h4c7D yCOLjiNdVUJSudvglpeuPiXh/sE2AOOTsXtWsealiLY0Q72BwESrlgoeczdHJDFs 5SKyIP2FbCu8uv5aPA/zbTzgxEioe0ifykpqkctVKz4v7mo/Jtq+IDERvJEnFVRz OwoMd8gMVhrPRJJHdyvihPvZnUhdArmFDbYD7lpujgJEJo7nQalVh4Ex8Xr9x4us AxVCLWY/saTs94l5WzEj4o9UGUmfeqfn6MJhH7OAzpOZoNAChJHAyMD9k+2feBvO XJphAKZ5krVSsnzmci+vkIz+aAF9xzRqkbOejz1/ZQgwCo0Ex9IwczRI5F3GVEHQ 3b3LPAp5MoGjO94/2EqHQ0TLw1jaoPfVZhXkb/lerx1TGk5iMSeHWy6Efkv7NbRz EM48XcjYL/PE/2r2VSxUIDdJZjQONlgB2oO8wo2SEVihTgVkPTNoxe/l2i2d3DRT YFyzT1Mk7YjEBAEBCAAuFiEE3Si95tmHXKvOSosd3M8NswvBBUgFAmaXoMEQHGFy bmVfYmFiQHdlYi5kZQAKCRDczw2zC8EFSHUJA/96nbqy2zbZv6/8cflErRtrdWPI jx5QZqXs+saKPYQTXyOQOnzIt/p2LViPyuwjmHoHqaLHRi8xRUWwYo/4LY4m28a9 o/4leD4y5O/tik11wfswQRuR7CPSEBN7qiXUrrrJaUQWod6BwYRz6DP/Kk8Q22FY r4KTQJJDmzV3AKjAgw== =ADvR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--