From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Christopher Allan Webber Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.devel Subject: Re: Ideas for a Guile tutorial to go with the new site Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 10:01:36 -0500 Message-ID: <87oafsi7tb.fsf@dustycloud.org> References: <87k2qkjh74.fsf@dustycloud.org> <69725d37e4da310143317b42e5cb35b1@openmailbox.org> <99386b9819329acfaad40d03deef0892@hypermove.net> <878u6ykefz.fsf@dustycloud.org> <5424e6a85a38f4b4ee11120d05a9938d@smtp.hushmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1445439761 1131 80.91.229.3 (21 Oct 2015 15:02:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 15:02:41 +0000 (UTC) Cc: guile-devel@gnu.org To: BCG Original-X-From: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 21 17:02:26 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZouuH-0008OF-0O for guile-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 17:02:25 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52012 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZouuG-0004q3-9b for guile-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 11:02:24 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:41226) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zouu3-0004po-Ff for guile-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 11:02:21 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zoutz-0000y7-Ba for guile-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 11:02:11 -0400 Original-Received: from dustycloud.org ([50.116.34.160]:52288) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zoutz-0000xu-7S for guile-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 11:02:07 -0400 Original-Received: from earlgrey (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dustycloud.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E6959266D0; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 11:02:05 -0400 (EDT) In-reply-to: <5424e6a85a38f4b4ee11120d05a9938d@smtp.hushmail.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 50.116.34.160 X-BeenThere: guile-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Developers list for Guile, the GNU extensibility library" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.lisp.guile.devel:17951 Archived-At: BCG writes: > On 10/19/2015 12:29 PM, Christopher Allan Webber wrote: >> Amirouche Boubekki writes: >> >>> To the contrary I think it's not a good idea to start upfront the >>> tutorial with which editor should be used is a good way to loose half of >>> the readers, because they will feel more uncomfortable and not up to the >>> task. To be useful emacs requires one 'Getting Started' tutorial in >>> itself. Or anykind of setup for that matter. The tutorial should go as >>> quickly as possible to the matter and start with coding. >>> >>> I started a tutorial at http://hypermove.net/. I don't introduce >>> readline until the user knows what the REPL is. Part 1 is all done in >>> REPL. I subtly introduce emacs as a good choice for an editor in part 2 >>> which is done in an editor. But doesn't enforce it. >> Okay, sorry if I wasn't being clear... my goal in that section would be >> to encourage everyone who *isn't already an emacs user* to pick up a >> simple editor and know how to use that with Guile, but them give them a >> brief tip that they want to look into Emacs + Geiser once they've dived >> in a bit more deeply. >> >> I don't think this section needs to be too long. I agree it should not >> be overwhelming. >> > Personally I would appreciate a not-so-brief tip. Most resources on the > web about coding in scheme seem to claim that emacs is the best > environment for it, but rarely go into the reasoning about why or > provide a focused way to get started with it. I'd be happy to try out > those tools, but it hardly is worth it to me to slog through the emacs > tutorial just to see if I like whatever advantages it may have for > coding Scheme. > > After so many years of vi muscle memory I just can't find justification > to slow down my productivity and learn emacs... but I wouldn't mind > doing it just for Guile coding where I'm not really productive yet > anyways - especially if there was getting started guide focused on that > with pointers to other resources for a deeper dive if I like it. > > Even if I didn't end up switching to emacs for everything, I may find > that I want to use it just for Scheme... just like I fire up Eclipse > when I want to work on Java, but I don't bother using Eclipse for > anything else > > It doesn't seem like a suggestion for a development environment should > distract too much from a tutorial, but maybe that is too much to expect > when your audience includes hackers. ;) > > Just my opinion, which is worth what you paid for it. > > -- Ben Thanks for the input! Maybe we can go both ways... keep it brief in the tutorial, but have a link to "for more on why this is, see this link" which goes to the manual, or some blogpost, or other resource?