From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?=) Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.devel Subject: Re: The Guile community we could have (or: solving Worse is More Accessible) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 10:46:01 +0200 Message-ID: <87lhayx706.fsf@gnu.org> References: <12940f8a9be1fde49c9e9700480893a3@openmailbox.org> <877fnqlqtm.fsf@gmail.com> <574f30d4f5b0aef083a39ea7ad89fced@openmailbox.org> <03c272c09730d4aadb8c8e687992ec2b@openmailbox.org> <87io6yrp6x.fsf@dustycloud.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1445330801 14929 80.91.229.3 (20 Oct 2015 08:46:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 08:46:41 +0000 (UTC) To: guile-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 20 10:46:33 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZoSYy-0006CI-Hi for guile-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 10:46:32 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44594 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZoSYy-00047e-0U for guile-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 04:46:32 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:59765) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZoSYu-00046x-9Y for guile-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 04:46:30 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZoSYq-0001nA-MP for guile-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 04:46:28 -0400 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:37379) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZoSYq-0001mT-Ee for guile-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 04:46:24 -0400 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZoSYi-0005vC-RI for guile-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 10:46:16 +0200 Original-Received: from pluto.bordeaux.inria.fr ([193.50.110.57]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 10:46:16 +0200 Original-Received: from ludo by pluto.bordeaux.inria.fr with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 10:46:16 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 25 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: pluto.bordeaux.inria.fr X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: 29 =?utf-8?Q?Vend=C3=A9miaire?= an 224 de la =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=A9volution?= X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x3D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:AtbBFVK0uFvVgmD2gSVcCqzkGYw= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: guile-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Developers list for Guile, the GNU extensibility library" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.lisp.guile.devel:17940 Archived-At: Christopher Allan Webber skribis: > To put it another way, many here have probably read the "Worse is > Better" essays. That paradox of "better" I think sticks in the craw of > many lispers; something both seems wrong and yet frustratingly right > about it. Maybe another way to look at it: "Worse is more accessible", > or "worse has the path of least resistance", or also importantly, "worse > is where I felt welcomed." Given that, no wonder many people feel safe > and better rather than what lispers believe is "the right thing". > > But maybe we could have both. I believe it requires effort, and perhaps > a rebranding of imagery. The wizard towers are still there if you want > them... I doubt any lisper or schemer will give up on Guile or Scheme > because of some fun and inviting drawings. The fun drawings don't take > anything away! But they add something: they make Guile feel like > somplace, even as a newcomer, you might belong. I’ve had your message and thoughts in the back of my mind for some time and yes, your characterization of wizardry and the message it conveys to newcomers, suggesting both a place where “magical” things happen and an intimidating community, makes a lot of sense to me. The new web site seems like a way to improve that image, indeed! Ludo’.