From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.devel Subject: Re: Logo baseline Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2020 12:21:41 +0100 Message-ID: <87lfq3u1x6.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87a76kx3g2.fsf@gnu.org> <87lfq49vka.fsf@web.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="31070"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.3 (gnu/linux) Cc: Andy Wingo , guile-devel@gnu.org To: Arne Babenhauserheide Original-X-From: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Jan 19 12:22:00 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1it8eW-000832-J2 for guile-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 19 Jan 2020 12:22:00 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49344 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1it8eV-00009Z-Gz for guile-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 19 Jan 2020 06:21:59 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53543) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1it8eH-00006X-Sr for guile-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Jan 2020 06:21:46 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:34929) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1it8eG-0005AU-N7; Sun, 19 Jan 2020 06:21:44 -0500 Original-Received: from [2a01:e0a:1d:7270:af76:b9b:ca24:c465] (port=33020 helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1it8eF-0007Qq-QA; Sun, 19 Jan 2020 06:21:44 -0500 X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: 30 =?utf-8?Q?Niv=C3=B4se?= an 228 de la =?utf-8?Q?R?= =?utf-8?Q?=C3=A9volution?= X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x090B11993D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu In-Reply-To: <87lfq49vka.fsf@web.de> (Arne Babenhauserheide's message of "Sun, 19 Jan 2020 00:47:01 +0100") X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-BeenThere: guile-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Developers list for Guile, the GNU extensibility library" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "guile-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.lisp.guile.devel:20305 Archived-At: Hello! Arne Babenhauserheide skribis: > Thomas Morley writes: > >>> Clearly, Guile is still an extension language, with many great >>> applications (Gnucash, Lepton-EDA, OpenCog, GDB, etc.) >> >> Well, you forgot LilyPond > > The one tool that uses Guile while dominating its domain. Yup, I don=E2=80=99t forget LilyPond! >> Well, for me, Guile's _the_ extension language for my LilyPond. >> >> It may be more, it may have become more. >> And yes, I used Guile for some other stuff as well. >> Nevertheless, it remains the language to extend LilyPond. >> >> It feels very strange dropping said phrase. > > Same for me. Like I wrote, Guile remains an extension language, no argument here. However, describing it as =E2=80=9Cjust=E2=80=9D an extension language seem= s odd to me. It doesn=E2=80=99t take into account what many have been doing with Guile, = and it doesn=E2=80=99t match the efforts that have gone into Guile since 2.0. > That Guile takes effort to make extending easy distinguishes Guile > from all the just-scripting languages out there, and also from many > other Schemes. I don=E2=80=99t find embeddability to be that much of a salient feature. A= fter all, CPython, Script-Fu, Lua, ECL, GJS, etc. all fit into that category. Other adjectives I proposed (fast, functional) don=E2=80=99t quite apply to these, though. > Actually I=E2=80=99d love to see Guile become better at this: to make it = easier > to deploy an application that uses Guile in a statically compiled > binary. > > Basically to generalize what LilyPond is doing. In what ways could it become =E2=80=9Cbetter=E2=80=9D for this use case? Personally, I encourage people to write more Scheme and less C, there are lots of good reasons for that. As a corollary, I encourage moving from =E2=80=9Cembedding=E2=80=9D Guile (linking your C/C++ program against = libguile) to =E2=80=9Cextending=E2=80=9D Guile (having your main program written in Guil= e Scheme and calling out to C/C++ bits as needed). That=E2=80=99s been my position sinc= e the 2.0 days. Thanks, Ludo=E2=80=99.