From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Mike Gerwitz Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.devel Subject: Re: Contributions to Guile Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2016 21:25:50 -0500 Message-ID: <87k2mgvsy9.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87twlno63d.fsf@gnu.org> <877figyxb2.fsf@dustycloud.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1454900362 30621 80.91.229.3 (8 Feb 2016 02:59:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2016 02:59:22 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= , guile-devel@gnu.org To: Christopher Allan Webber Original-X-From: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Feb 08 03:59:10 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aSc2d-0003BY-RS for guile-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2016 03:59:07 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40578 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aSc2d-0003gS-Az for guile-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2016 21:59:07 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:35174) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aSc2W-0003g2-0L for guile-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2016 21:59:01 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aSc2U-00006k-RC for guile-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2016 21:58:59 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:50317) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aSc2R-00006P-DC; Sun, 07 Feb 2016 21:58:55 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56128 helo=mikegerwitz-pc.gerwitz.local) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aSc2P-0005zW-27; Sun, 07 Feb 2016 21:58:53 -0500 In-Reply-To: <877figyxb2.fsf@dustycloud.org> (Christopher Allan Webber's message of "Sun, 07 Feb 2016 14:23:29 -0800") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: guile-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Developers list for Guile, the GNU extensibility library" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.lisp.guile.devel:18147 Archived-At: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Feb 07, 2016 at 14:23:29 -0800, Christopher Allan Webber wrote: > Texinfo is pretty nice to use if you're an emacs user... in fact, if > you're an emacs user, it's the best documentation reading system in the > world. But not everyone's an emacs user. It's also the required documentation format for GNU projects. > If the html export was nicely themed, that could help a lot. Maybe > other things could also be done, I'm not sure. I had some decent success with the GNU ease.js manual: https://gnu.org/software/easejs/manual.html http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/easejs.git/tree/doc/Makefile.am ...unfortunately it required some post-processing: http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/easejs.git/tree/tools/webdoc?h=3Dwebsite That doesn't do well to help makeinfo's case, but the changes weren't all that complicated, and I think that a few good configuration options would produce some good results. > I'm not super excited dealing with all the m4-expanded shell, I'd still > love a Guile based autotools replacement that implements the ./configure > && make interface still. I'm not sure it'll happen. Maybe someone will > pick it up? That's not a trivial problem to solve. If you take a look through the Auto{make,conf} documentation and script output---while a lot of it exists to handle various types of systems which Guile will need to worry about a whole lot less, since it's contained---it handles quite a bit. For GNU evaluations, we find that it's very hard to get a configure and build system that meets GNU standards without it. But the declarative approach offered by Scheme is very appealing. Perhaps one idea is to start by compiling a Scheme representation into Auto{conf,make}. This could also have the benefit of generating the necessary boilerplate with a (probably very) concise syntax. The result will be a standard build process that could then have pieces slowly replaced with pure Guile Scheme. Since Guile is a standard part of the GNU operating system, this might also be a reasonable option for many other projects, even if they don't themselves use Guile as a language. It's possible that this might only ever be a subset of all the features that Auto{conf,make} offer, but a subset is all most people need. > In the meanwhile we've had some conversations about this, see David > Thompson's RFC on a Guile project generator: > > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guile-user/2015-09/msg00042.html I like this idea, even if the above is implemented. =2D-=20 Mike Gerwitz Free Software Hacker | GNU Maintainer https://mikegerwitz.com FSF Member #5804 | GPG Key ID: 0x8EE30EAB --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJWt/yuAAoJEPIruBWO4w6rjNQQAIbU7zbW5Jpxwfgj3wgmWCGK iyNL4O4g03Jya1HAXo2zauA0afYs+MIyYXuy44nhKfVy51skzHsOzrGXNKb4sE/h 7X+owjaNFGldWpIC8QZmvH4oSBYFqHleUbjhG53Ol+tFSW73zGNcSY5wxFq5RXkE +6Of7emm2GbiP+t7fcPoZ9ioBLNCbckw+ez0in+JpgeD320UMspyEdyXDrKZntEu wjGRI+TtR4qCyAJ0pm9KY5eBzcZIc7e2AxIvyVOFxNoqiwqk3S1TWBYH0LyN3hAt dCBVhkmObo+BhHX8k+7A0LgEq5FBgFGsV0+W16qTWasmYQBIrPhTciaW/rr5ODYt zp975b34bm0F+AifCC99rTtWDDfvyQhEOVhebl4327oD4kUFlqeOmMKdJC6Z1X1e czJ9E41pch7B5eTyqUKqh11RMPWt9nAXDVa+PCo6bOnMVYiK8csCvH6tF9inD/7c AWZ2LI+az8xDA3a9Tl1gl0dxOP+ie4DyrBqPUNl734OysiktC9Vv5gh/5s0+M87Q kUiqffD8x73ZOr23e2AVhPlSgt+5PEBuhej5YDW3SdYANM5heXi0R+og4eGiYrTV s5bBa/mxd4NeRpARpS/zNdtAK12jBZ7NFudgDXBYDi17eAamTTMr2QFy7S8H7jr8 A05jgDKkBHXQGaq6f3wX =whQQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--