From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Andy Wingo Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.devel Subject: what to do about gnulib Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2024 16:55:08 +0200 Message-ID: <87ed8m8k6r.fsf@pobox.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="13542"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: bruno@clisp.org To: guile-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Jun 24 16:55:35 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sLl6U-0003HI-Sy for guile-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 24 Jun 2024 16:55:34 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sLl6D-0001E6-Ad; Mon, 24 Jun 2024 10:55:17 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sLl6A-0001Df-U6 for guile-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jun 2024 10:55:14 -0400 Original-Received: from fforwardh2-smtp.messagingengine.com ([103.168.172.197]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sLl69-0001nu-2O for guile-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jun 2024 10:55:14 -0400 Original-Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailfforwardh.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FCC02920255; Mon, 24 Jun 2024 10:55:12 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 24 Jun 2024 10:55:12 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-type:content-type:date:date :feedback-id:feedback-id:from:from:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version:reply-to:subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; t= 1719240912; x=1719327312; bh=zpKc6/KdSk2LNVkGKRf/5TD6umVPUn10hOP gMWCpgrw=; b=vxdPLnyUM+VqeTRbCp6Ub/eOLusTE9hp5aqCFD8O4OBpckZ/7jD ut/U+hQWw9AO7cxA2uEzplINOMILRsMRrGo11EryZC7pEvPPt/zkdiIJW0Ea2G+/ bKu6n93m22uOm1Oor//ECHlAOA3l7kro87Am+jALxUKCR0ip8qixVW0LiUHvz2nW /bg8RHkWP5qZM8eh4ky9avFBm9iYTMUDUkaUYDsGi01t3d2dyywfmO5G7tLNKsDJ f+Sv9wbUzube4c7m7nj/AxqX9tZgcpDT9PExi2Y9LMvVdYTyw2TMWZUEj3v5n2Cy tbQ5Mky3pZt+P8Wk0HYqbstrKTuBpPH+Djw== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvledrfeeguddgkeefucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpefhvfevufffkfgfgggtsehttdertd dtredtnecuhfhrohhmpeetnhguhicuhghinhhgohcuoeifihhnghhosehpohgsohigrdgt ohhmqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpedugeetgfdukeelkeeivdehveeuteegkefhgffhhf egieejkedvgfeitdejhfehvdenucffohhmrghinhepshhouhhrtggvfigrrhgvrdhorhhg necuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepfihinh hgohesphhosghogidrtghomh X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i0cba4195:Fastmail Original-Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Mon, 24 Jun 2024 10:55:11 -0400 (EDT) Received-SPF: neutral client-ip=103.168.172.197; envelope-from=wingo@pobox.com; helo=fforwardh2-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -17 X-Spam_score: -1.8 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guile-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Developers list for Guile, the GNU extensibility library" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.lisp.guile.devel:22465 Archived-At: Hi, I am not sure what to do about gnulib. To recap, gnulib provides compile-time shims for "foreign" or out-of-date target systems that allows Guile to program to a single POSIX + GNU API and not worry too much about what the system actually offers. It is never installed; instead it includes the `gnulib-tool` utility to update the in-tree copy of gnulib, for a selected set of modules. So far, so good. However I was unable to update gnulib before the most recent release. The reason is essentially the problem described in this issue: https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=30051 To wit, running "autoreconf -vif" invokes the "autopoint" tool supplied by installed gettext, which copies over .m4 files from installed gettext, but these files are older than the ones that are already "vendored" in-tree by gnulib. Other parts of gnulib depend on the newer gnulib-supplied macros which were stompled over; autoconf thus fails to run. So, I can't update gnulib right now. Not a great situation. The options, as I understand them: 1. Some projects (e.g. poke) seem to import the whole of gnulib as a git submodule, and then run "gnulib-tool --update" from that submodule as part of their bootstrap. In this way the stompled files are restored. However I do not want git submodules in Guile; they add additional steps for every time you change to a different HEAD, and I know from experience that I can't rely on myself to perform them all, much less any user with a bug report. Do not want. 2. Same as (1), but subtree merge. This is what we do with lightening and what I would like to do with Whippet, if that project works out. But gnulib is big; a checkout is 200 MB of data + 130 MB git repo. ** Note, for (1) and (2), if you wanted to preserve the ability to bootstrap from a tarball, you'd have to include gnulib in the tarball. Of course you could argue that if you are not gnulib-tool --update'ing, are you really bootstrapping? I don't know the answer. *** 3. Fix autopoint to not overwrite newer m4 files with its copies. I don't know? 4. Fix installed gettext to not define gl_ macros ? That would make it so that it won't stomple on a local gnulib copy. I don't know though. 5. Update to whatever version of gnulib is the latest without this change? 6. Something else? Stop using gnulib? I am not a gnulib wizard and would appreciate any thoughts :) Cc'ing Bruno as he is the expert. Really I would like to avoid gnulib-tool --update in Guile's bootstrap and just keep things like it is. Of course I could be being unreasonable. Cheers, Andy